This thread is the epitome of the state of Yong Chun. Perhaps its time to put the discussion to bed once & for all. I propose that this whole sordid business be taken out of the realm of the theoretical and tested in the practical. Time to put up or shut up in the same manner as the Gracie's, show up and prove it under non-compliant pressure. I'm not a fan of BJJ or MMA, but they have my respect for backing up their claims with action. If you want to be taken seriously, put your 16 hour training course to the ultimate test. Otherwise its nothing more than unfounded claims and supposition. If none of you are willing to do so then shut the hell up about your claims of superiority. Feel free to send a PM, my door is always open. I have nothing to prove but am always willing to learn something new & useful. Enter with civility and it will be returned in kind, enter with hubris & malice be prepared to deal with the consequences.