Point fighting

[CB Jones]

I wish that was true. It actually does come up more often than people realize.

There was a case that we were told about when I went to my security training about a Canadian officer who was attacked with a knife by an assailant. He had a knife combat training so he felt confident in his moves and apparently he performed it exactly the way it's supposed to. The problem was he had to the weapon back to the criminal because he had it programmed in his head It was a case that we were told about when I went to my security training about a Canadian officer who was attacked with a knife by an assailant. He had a knife combat training so he felt confident in his moves and apparently he performed it exactly the way it's supposed to. The problem was he handed the weapon back to the criminal because he had it programmed in his head to do so because that's just what they normally did when they were working drills and practice. Of course immediately, the criminal tried to attack the officer again and the second time the cop didn't make the same mistake.

That is just one example, but when the blood gets moving and the adrenaline starts pumping, your body naturally just switches over to automation mode. That's why conditioning and drilling is so important in your application. It is so the person can do what he need to do and get it done.

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Lol.

I've heard that same story told numerous times in training and seminars involving all kind of weapons and different agencies.

I think it is more of an urban myth.

I dunno maybe the origin is true but I've heard many different agencies claim it.

 

[Headhunter]

This video represents everything I find wrong with sport karate and point fighting. This is why people say karate's SD/fighting value is worthless. It's pretty hard to argue that when this is all they've seen.

To each his/her own. I can't stand it, but I don't have to either. As long as they're enjoying themselves.

Agreed its the point tournaments that gives karate a bad name. Majority of karate techniques would be illegal in any type of competition let alone full contact and point fighting your barely allowed to touch each other. And a lot of tournaments are just poorly organised. I remember I went to one and there was no joke 1 person in the forms category for blue belt so obviously they won gold...in a division with 1 person but they can go around saying they're a good medalist world champion. That's why when people list their tournament qualifications and how many gold medals they've won it doesn't impress me because it sometimes sounds better than it is.

 

[Headhunter]

Sorry kinda find that hard to believe. Maybe one person did that but to have had multiple people do that seems to be an embellishment.

Nope it absolutely happens I'm guilty of it. I was training kickboxing but took a boxing match so for months I just trained boxing then after the fight when I was training I was hesitant with my kicks and didn't even think to throw them as I was so used to just punching and normally my kicks were my best weapons. It took a good few weeks to get back to where I was.

 

[CB Jones]

Agreed its the point tournaments that gives karate a bad name. Majority of karate techniques would be illegal in any type of competition let alone full contact and point fighting your barely allowed to touch each other. And a lot of tournaments are just poorly organised. I remember I went to one and there was no joke 1 person in the forms category for blue belt so obviously they won gold...in a division with 1 person but they can go around saying they're a good medalist world champion. That's why when people list their tournament qualifications and how many gold medals they've won it doesn't impress me because it sometimes sounds better than it is.

Disagree.

The problem is not the tournaments....it's the Dojos or organizations that promotes bad techniques.

There are good organizations out there.

 

[Headhunter]

Disagree.

The problem is not the tournaments....it's the Dojos or organizations that promotes bad techniques.

There are good organizations out there.

Well I've yet to see one in over 20 years in martial arts.

and no actually dojos teach the proper techniques but then guys go to tournaments and people who are actually good fighters are losing to guys who are jumping round like kangaroos throwing nothing but back knuckles and sprinting like Usain bolt at them and getting points for kicks stopping miles from them. So those good fighters start fighting in the bad way so they can win.

 

[CB Jones]

Well I've yet to see one in over 20 years in martial arts.

and no actually dojos teach the proper techniques but then guys go to tournaments and people who are actually good fighters are losing to guys who are jumping round like kangaroos throwing nothing but back knuckles and sprinting like Usain bolt at them and getting points for kicks stopping miles from them. So those good fighters start fighting in the bad way so they can win.

We shall agree to disagree then.

I feel that the organization we compete in does a good job of requiring sound technique and effectiveness. And does a good job of promoting karate.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sorry, I don't see what you are talking about at the 50 second mark.

I see him get grabbed and his arms come out but I think that is just from being grabbed and pulled in quickly. He also throws a half hearted punch to the side of his head during it.

But nothing that looks like he is expecting the ref to jump in.

People who fight have more urgency when someone grabs them by the waist like that. He lacked that urgency and that's what makes me think he had fallen back into point sparring mode and expected the clinch to be broken up. I've seen the same arm movement done in sports where the clinch is broken up. They open their arms as if to say "I'm not the one clinching"

I don't think that's exclusive to cops. It's fairly true of martial artists, too.

I know I have mine, but it usually involves me coming home late from kung fu practice and me having to fight off dinosaurs and ninjas as the reason why I'm late lol. I figured that people either like dinosaurs or ninjas, so when I get the story going, they will forget that I was late

 

[Headhunter]

We shall agree to disagree then.

I feel that the organization we compete in does a good job of requiring sound technique and effectiveness. And does a good job of promoting karate.

Well yeah of course you do you're not going to say your kid competes in a badly run tournament are you. But well as I've said on your videos your boy falls into some of the bad habits that are being mentioned.

Point fighting doesn't represent karate. There's so much more to it than getting a few points and winning a cup at the end.

Trust me if you competed yourself you'd understand how frustrating it is losing to a guy who gets points for throwing basically slaps which wouldn't hurt a fly

No offence intended simply stating an opinion

 

[CB Jones]

Well yeah of course you do you're not going to say your kid competes in a badly run tournament are you. But well as I've said on your videos your boy falls into some of the bad habits that are being mentioned.

Point fighting doesn't represent karate. There's so much more to it than getting a few points and winning a cup at the end.

Trust me if you competed yourself you'd understand how frustrating it is losing to a guy who gets points for throwing basically slaps which wouldn't hurt a fly

No offence intended simply stating an opinion

I would definitely be critical of the tournament if it was run badly. I'm the one paying for it. And I have been very critical of other organizations and we no longer go to them.

And as I admitted my son's fighting was off that day and he had some stuff he needed to clean up. But as an 11 year old I feel he is at a pretty high level and could hold his own at most other Dojos.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I have nothing against point sparring. I did it for awhile, I enjoyed it. Not that good at it, but I feel it helped me in a number of ways with my training.

I stopped because we teach self-defense where I train. An opponent dropped his guard to look down at the edge of the ring and I busted his nose without meaning to and without thinking about it. Guard went down, my right cross shot in.

I felt bad about it, truly. I'm not bragging; it was a lack of control on my part. But I also realized that I train to respond exactly as I did. I don't want to try to tamp that down.

So I'm done sparring. No, I don't think I am all that and a bag of chips. I'm not some scary dangerous killer who can hardly be restrained. I'm not too tough to compete and everyone should fear me. Nothing like that. I'm old, fat, and slow. But I've trained to respond a certain way and amazingly, I seem to be doing that.

When asked to attend a tournament as a judge, I generally agree. Like I said, I have nothing against tournaments or point sparring.

 

[Paul_D]

Now there's no problem with that as long as the fighters know that they can't fight like that in a self defence situation.

Absolutely, as long as you understand the correct context, it wont cause problems.

Fighting, martial arts and self defence are three different things, problems only start when you start mistaking one for the others.

 

[CB Jones]

Trust me if you competed yourself you'd understand how frustrating it is losing to a guy who gets points for throwing basically slaps which wouldn't hurt a fly

No offence intended simply stating an opinion

Trust me as a father I certainly understand that frustration we have seen some pretty horrible tournaments.

But that frustration you experienced is creating a biasness against all other organizations.

To judge all organizations harshly because you weren't as successful as you felt you should of been at a few events is wrong. Each organization should be judged on its own merits.

 

[Headhunter]

Absolutely, as long as you understand the correct context, it wont cause problems.

Fighting, martial arts and self defence are three different things, problems only start when you start mistaking one for the others.

Sadly there are some who don't. I had a friend who was an excellent point fighter but he fought he was everything and said to me your kickboxing couldn't beat me and said he'd knocked a guy in a bar out with a jumping back knuckle....yeah I respected our friendship to much to say what I was thinking there

 

[JowGaWolf]

And as I admitted my son's fighting was off that day and he had some stuff he needed to clean up. But as an 11 year old I feel he is at a pretty high level and could hold his own at most other Dojos.

Fair assessment. You know your son's ability better than we do, you also trained him better footwork than what was being used at the tournament. Footwork plays a big part. The better the footwork the easier it is to utilize the skills.

 

[Headhunter]

Trust me as a father I certainly understand that frustration we have seen some pretty horrible tournaments.

But that frustration you experienced is creating a biasness against all other organizations.

To judge all organizations harshly because you weren't as successful as you felt you should of been at a few events is wrong. Each organization should be judged on its own merits.

Don't think I don't like it because I didn't win, I couldn't care less about a win or a loss I've never cared about trophies. They mean nothing to me . The only thing I've been awarded that means something to me is my black belt the rest of it all the trophies and medals the ones I've won are in a box in the attic.

The reason I don't like them is because they insult the martial arts and break all the rules just for a trophy

 

[Paul_D]

Sadly there are some who don't.

There are many, quite a few post on this site.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I felt bad about it, truly. I'm not bragging; it was a lack of control on my part. But I also realized that I train to respond exactly as I did. I don't want to try to tamp that down.

You shouldn't feel bad about what you did. If there was a lack of control then it was in your opponent. The same way we have to have control with our punches, we also have to have control over our focus. Your opponent didn't and as a result paid the price. If anything he probably learned a good lesson thanks to you.

 

[CB Jones]

if you don't care that you didn't fare well then why do you bring it up?

People don't keep bringing up what they don't care about.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

We shall agree to disagree then.

I feel that the organization we compete in does a good job of requiring sound technique and effectiveness. And does a good job of promoting karate.

I think that's kind of the point (no pun intended). The organization you reference uses a ruleset that requires sound technique, so people use sound technique. If the ruleset were changed to favor crappy technique, most competitors would either switch to crappy technique (from a combat perspective) or eventually quit competing.

 

[Headhunter]

if you don't care that you didn't fare well then why do you bring it up?

People don't keep bringing up what they don't care about.

Keep bringing it up? I mentioned it once and it's called talking about experiences I'll happily talk about any of my losses and say what I did wrong that's simply me not having a big ego and hiding that I've lost and I actually didn't mention myself losing I simply /people/ get frustrated losing to guys who fight with awful habits nevrr said a thing about myself