Point fighting

[CB Jones]

I will be honest, I hate point sparring. As someone who works security, I have found no practical use for it in direct real world application that I cannot get in full round sparring matches. Also, it sets up false expectations in fighters for what is involved in real conflicts. There are times where point sparring is the preferred method though and it has merit as a training tool for the following:

• Help build speed and conditioning in a dynamic interaction
• condition fundamental movements for kids
• Weapons sparring, especially with blades (knives, swords, etc)

As used in tournaments, it is basically a dual between two competitors and can be good to show speed and skill, but my experience is that it is not usually the first strike that ends the fight, but the last one.

Of course point sparring doesn't have direct world application...how would that work.....call your on points....and if your willing to agree to point fight, why are fighting in the 1st place?

Point sparring is just another building material for your art.

Kinda like building a house, sand alone doesn't create a good foundation but when you mix it with other materials you can form concrete and build a very solid foundation.

 

[CB Jones]

It's also great for networking, through competition we have friends from Mississippi all the way to California.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have no disagreement with you post. Just with that second clip. That isn't a California Blitz.

No problem. I wasn't trying to show a specific point sparring technique. I was just showing that people train "point sparring techniques" which aren't self-defense techniques or martial arts techniques. If I was teaching point sparring it would look like Jow Ga techniques. I would take out the big punches and focus on the evasive techniques to train. Either way it would still be Jow Ga Kung Fu

 

[JR 137]

I never really gave point sparring ingraining bad habits until a few months ago...

An acquaintance of mine teaches defensive tactics at the local police academy. He's had people stop during their sparring (not sure what they do nor how they do it). When he asks why they stopped, some people have responded with "that was a point." His reply - "where the F do you see a scoreboard?"

 

[CB Jones]

I never really gave point sparring ingraining bad habits until a few months ago...

An acquaintance of mine teaches defensive tactics at the local police academy. He's had people stop during their sparring (not sure what they do nor how they do it). When he asks why they stopped, some people have responded with "that was a point." His reply - "where the F do you see a scoreboard?"

Sorry kinda find that hard to believe. Maybe one person did that but to have had multiple people do that seems to be an embellishment.

 

[JR 137]

This video represents everything I find wrong with sport karate and point fighting. This is why people say karate's SD/fighting value is worthless. It's pretty hard to argue that when this is all they've seen.

To each his/her own. I can't stand it, but I don't have to either. As long as they're enjoying themselves.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sorry kinda find that hard to believe. Maybe one person did that but to have had multiple people do that seems to be an embellishment.

People will do what they train to do. They are most likely to do what they train the most. If those people trained mostly by point-sparring rules (stop after a point is scored), then they will have that habit, even when not under those rules. Mind you, folks who train only partly by those rules won't be likely to develop that as a dominant habit.

 

[CB Jones]

This video represents everything I find wrong with sport karate and point fighting. This is why people say karate's SD/fighting value is worthless. It's pretty hard to argue that when this is all they've seen.

To each his/her own. I can't stand it, but I don't have to either. As long as they're enjoying themselves.

But that is sport karate....there are many other organizations.

Not every organization is like that. You are unfairly grouping everyone into one category.

 

[CB Jones]

People will do what they train to do. They are most likely to do what they train the most. If those people trained mostly by point-sparring rules (stop after a point is scored), then they will have that habit, even when not under those rules. Mind you, folks who train only partly by those rules won't be likely to develop that as a dominant habit.

After 18 years in Law enforcement I have learned that when cops tell stories it's mostly embellishment.

I don't doubt that it happened....it's just the frequency that i doubt. Lol.

 

[CB Jones]

This video represents everything I find wrong with sport karate and point fighting. This is why people say karate's SD/fighting value is worthless. It's pretty hard to argue that when this is all they've seen.

To each his/her own. I can't stand it, but I don't have to either. As long as they're enjoying themselves.

There are good and bad examples in everything, but the bad examples Isn't necessarily the definition.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've seen professional point sparring athletes make the same mistake when they transitioned into full contact, and I've seen the same "hit and stop" habit happen in point sparring where the person thinks that they scored a point so they stop their attack to celebrate only to be punched in the face by their opponent
I usually see it with the girls. At the 2:08 mark the girls scores and stops defending herself and takes one to the head

This is Raymon Daniels getting caught in that hit then stop habit. You can see it when his opponent grabs him at the :50 second mark. His arms go out in a funny manner as if he is thinking that the ref will break them up.

This is Raymond Daniels he started off in point fighting and still carries some of his point fighting habits with him. He has had some wins and KOs but really hasn't been able to be as successful in the full contact arena. He has the skill set and ability to do be really good, but he has to let go of his point sparring techniques and strategies because they don't integrate well in full contact. Many of us would have taken a similar strategy against an opponent doing the same charge. Defend and absorb the charge in exchange for a more powerful strike. If a person is faster than you then take their legs away or cut them off.

With all of this said I think point sparring is a great opportunity to work martial art techniques but very few take the opportunity to do so.

 

[CB Jones]

The main organization we compete in requires good technique and it's supposed to be an effective type technique for it to be a point.

Judges aren't as strict in kid and beginner divisions.

But even still you sometimes get judges that aren't as strict as others.

 

[jks9199]

Sorry kinda find that hard to believe. Maybe one person did that but to have had multiple people do that seems to be an embellishment.

Nope. Seen it more than a few times myself. You bring a 21 or 22 year old kid in who's never really done "fighting", just tournament sparring stuff, and they do what they've practiced. Usually it's pretty easily fixed... but they'll do it. I have seen them do it and continuous fighting too.

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[CB Jones]

I've seen professional point sparring athletes make the same mistake when they transitioned into full contact, and I've seen the same "hit and stop" habit happen in point sparring where the person thinks that they scored a point so they stop their attack to celebrate only to be punched in the face by their opponent
I usually see it with the girls. At the 2:08 mark the girls scores and stops defending herself and takes one to the head

This is Raymon Daniels getting caught in that hit then stop habit. You can see it when his opponent grabs him at the :50 second mark. His arms go out in a funny manner as if he is thinking that the ref will break them up.

This is Raymond Daniels he started off in point fighting and still carries some of his point fighting habits with him. He has had some wins and KOs but really hasn't been able to be as successful in the full contact arena. He has the skill set and ability to do be really good, but he has to let go of his point sparring techniques and strategies because they don't integrate well in full contact. Many of us would have taken a similar strategy against an opponent doing the same charge. Defend and absorb the charge in exchange for a more powerful strike. If a person is faster than you then take their legs away or cut them off.

With all of this said I think point sparring is a great opportunity to work martial art techniques but very few take the opportunity to do so.

Sorry, I don't see what you are talking about at the 50 second mark.

I see him get grabbed and his arms come out but I think that is just from being grabbed and pulled in quickly. He also throws a half hearted punch to the side of his head during it.

But nothing that looks like he is expecting the ref to jump in.

 

[JR 137]

If I recall correctly, he said it happened a few times.

He's a former student of mine's father (I'm a school teacher). I saw him wearing his DT shirt, so I started asking him about what he teaches, how he feels about various MA and MA techniques, etc. He claims he has zero martial arts experience, so I don't think it was him bashing one art/style/sparring method over another.

 

[CB Jones]

If I recall correctly, he said it happened a few times.

He's a former student of mine's father (I'm a school teacher). I saw him wearing his DT shirt, so I started asking him about what he teaches, how he feels about various MA and MA techniques, etc. He claims he has zero martial arts experience, so I don't think it was him bashing one art/style/sparring method over another.

But he is a cop.

Trust me cops can't tell "war stories" without a lot of embellishment. Lol.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But he is a cop.

Trust me cops can't tell "war stories" without a lot of embellishment. Lol.

I don't think that's exclusive to cops. It's fairly true of martial artists, too.

 

[thanson02]

Point sparring is just another building material for your art.

Kinda like building a house, sand alone doesn't create a good foundation but when you mix it with other materials you can form concrete and build a very solid foundation.

I absolutely agree and I thought I made that clear in my post. If it wasn't, I apologise. I was expressing how I felt about it. Even though we do full round, semi-contact sparring in our system, we regularly use point sparring as a training tool help build our speed and reflexes up for our application.

I also agree that the tournament scene can be a really good place to help with social and business networking. [emoji4]



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[thanson02]

Sorry kinda find that hard to believe. Maybe one person did that but to have had multiple people do that seems to be an embellishment.

I wish that was true. It actually does come up more often than people realize.

There was a case that we were told about when I went to my security training about a Canadian officer who was attacked with a knife by an assailant. He had a knife combat training so he felt confident in his moves and apparently he performed it exactly the way it's supposed to. The problem was he had to the weapon back to the criminal because he had it programmed in his head It was a case that we were told about when I went to my security training about a Canadian officer who was attacked with a knife by an assailant. He had a knife combat training so he felt confident in his moves and apparently he performed it exactly the way it's supposed to. The problem was he handed the weapon back to the criminal because he had it programmed in his head to do so because that's just what they normally did when they were working drills and practice. Of course immediately, the criminal tried to attack the officer again and the second time the cop didn't make the same mistake.

That is just one example, but when the blood gets moving and the adrenaline starts pumping, your body naturally just switches over to automation mode. That's why conditioning and drilling is so important in your application. It is so the person can do what he need to do and get it done.

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[thanson02]

But he is a cop.

Trust me cops can't tell "war stories" without a lot of embellishment. Lol.

That is a fair point and and they do.

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