Despite style vs style wars and art stereotypes,why RBSD,military,and street versions so similar?

[Buka]

As seen all the time on reddit's martial arts section and other various fighting forums, people are always arguing style vs style or talking about stereotypes of an art such as TKD relying on fancy kicks and jump attacks, Muay Thai using hard bat roundhouse, BJJ relying on pins in contrast to Judo's focus on throws, Savate using kicks and punches, etc etc etc........



On thing I notice is that the RBSD and military versions of an art and esp the street version (or at least streetfighters who practise primarily the one style or its main techniques)..................



Tend to USE FAR MORE COMMON principles in fighting than the stereotypes of the styles they practise. For example I saw a TKD instructor in a documentary who was in the Korean SF and now teaches RBSD. Rather than using the high jump kicks that many martial artists on this subreddit esp MMA proponents criticize TKD using, he just went straight to the point and took the guy down using a throw and following with a pinning to the ground.



I also saw some Thai military practising on Youtube and they used the exact same move the TKD instructor used-rather than throwing elbow swings, they quickly did a take down technique as they were sparing with each other. I saw French police techniques a while back on Human Weapon on the Savate episode and they too practised the same exact move during one of the training session. In addition there was a Yakuza fight and a Yakuza used the same technique and I could have sworn I saw a clip once of prisoners doing the same move........



In addition when the TKD instructor was demonstrating strikes he focused far more on knees and low-kicks, some of them even looking exactly like Savate kicks esp the Coup de Pied Bas and the knees was relying on many principles of Muay Thai (esp the clinch in the first few blows) and he ended the sparring session with a rear naked choke, something not typically used among TKD fighters but a standard BJJ move.......



I bring this up because I notice when they fight for real outside the ring rather than sticking to stereotypes such as straight karate punches or the use of quick slippery footwork as the prime defense against kicks on Savate, practically every hardened street fighter, military, and RBSD versions of an art rely on extremely "get to the point" techniques. I mean I read about an incident in France where a gang member who specializing in Savate instead of throwing kicks or punches, just grabbed his victim and smashed his skull on a table. In the exact same manner you typically see prisoners do in youtube vids and documentary in American max security fights. A technique also I seen in a documentary about a Japanese cop warning that Yakuza and other thugs might do to rookie police who just graduated from the academy. Which my dad had done a few times when I was acting like a cocky ******* (though he controlled the force to just pain me instead of breaking my head into two and he slammed my head on a wall not a table) and might I add my dad is in the Army National Guard and practises combatives.



Basically I notice in the realistic "fight for survival version" of a martial arts and among many practitioners of an art who actually frequently fought in the streets at one point of their life, they don't stick to trying to use stereotypes such as open hand strikes so associated with Silat and instead they just get fuckin ASAP to the point. I mean in addition to the TKD instructor throwing MT style blows and lower kicks resembling Savate I seen a friend who practises Kyokushin doe the exact same thing where he primarily kneed the guy and used kicks to sweep him down (not necessarily Savate kicks-actually karate but he used the basic principle in Savate of ending a fight by disrupting his legs). While he did not choke the person after the knees and low kicks swept him to the ground, he pinned him on top in a similar manner your typical manner that a trained fighter would if he was trying to choke someone.

I had to ask how come once you start getting into "real fighting" for lack of better words, plenty of stereotypes from the flailing flowery movements of Tai Chi to the acrobatics of Capoeira disappear? I mean with how much many martial artists on /r/martialarts, Bullshido, and other martial arts message boards argue fanatically about how "traditional Hapkido does not rely on kneeing!" or "real Capoeira relies on dancing movement and acrobatic attacks" and all the style vs style arguments criticizing TKD as impractical for relying too much on high kicks or Karate being too rigid and reliant on straight attacks, you'd think expert level martial artists would fight akin to their style's popular stereotypes. Instead what I seen and read seems to be practitioners of every style prefer to use straight forward common sense moves from getting a beer bottle and whacking a guy on the head with it to tackling a guy and pinning him on the wall with both choking or slamming him on the wall while also kneeing him or some other mundane attack!



Can anyone explain why out on the street hardened fighters despite specializing in one style such a BJJ prefer to use techniques far beyond what they teach at a typical gym or dojo teaching the style? And why practically every fighter be they army combatives instructors or Arnis Filipinos end up using extremely basic movements and ending a fight ASAP? Its as though style vs style doesn't exist in real fighting on the streets and fighters who never trained in several styles somehow can knee as hard as a pro MT kickboxer or dodge attacks with fluid footwork commonly found in Savate and using backslap motions and other flowery moves of Tai Chi! I mean seeing a Yakuza guy do a backwards spinning elbow move in Deadliest Warrior was extremely shocking!



Why is this? Does this mean in reality, style vs style is an extremely pointless thing and style stereotypes are not true despite how internet arguments always emphasize?

Can anyone explain why out on the street hardened fighters despite specializing in one style such a BJJ prefer to use techniques far beyond what they teach at a typical gym or dojo teaching the style?

I don't think the question actually works as written. "hardened street fighters" don't really train in Martial Arts. At least not enough of them to consider the question.

And why practically every fighter be they army combatives instructors or Arnis Filipinos end up using extremely basic movements and ending a fight ASAP?

In actual self defense, basics are best. Always. Let me bold that for emphasis, always. Any fight, any and all fights, should be ended ASAP.

Its as though style vs style doesn't exist in real fighting on the streets and fighters who never trained in several styles somehow can knee as hard as a pro MT kickboxer or dodge attacks with fluid footwork commonly found in Savate and using backslap motions and other flowery moves of Tai Chi!

By real fighting on the streets, you're referring to a self defense scenario, where at least one of the combatives is usually committing a crime, probably assault and battery, maybe something more serious.
That being said, you have to ask yourself if your experience with Pro Kickboxers is greater or less than a little bit.
As for "flowery moves of Tai Chi", I'm going to go out on a limb here and say your first hand experience with Tai Chi is limited. You might want to try it out, it's really cool. Fascinating, really.

I mean seeing a Yakuza guy do a backwards spinning elbow move in Deadliest Warrior was extremely shocking!

Television can be shocking at times, yes. But it's also really cool as well. I like television. Liked Deadliest Warrior a lot, too. I wish it was still on.

Why is this? Does this mean in reality, style vs style is an extremely pointless thing and style stereotypes are not true despite how internet arguments always emphasize?

Yes, you're right on the money, bro, Style vs Style is a pointless thing. Internet arguments are pointless and sometimes frustrating. Try to avoid them at all costs.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Internet arguments are pointless and sometimes frustrating. Try to avoid them at all costs.

Bang on the money !

 

[drop bear]

Can anyone explain why out on the street hardened fighters despite specializing in one style such a BJJ prefer to use techniques far beyond what they teach at a typical gym or dojo teaching the style?

I don't think the question actually works as written. "hardened street fighters" don't really train in Martial Arts. At least not enough of them to consider the question.

And why practically every fighter be they army combatives instructors or Arnis Filipinos end up using extremely basic movements and ending a fight ASAP?

In actual self defense, basics are best. Always. Let me bold that for emphasis, always. Any fight, any and all fights, should be ended ASAP.

Its as though style vs style doesn't exist in real fighting on the streets and fighters who never trained in several styles somehow can knee as hard as a pro MT kickboxer or dodge attacks with fluid footwork commonly found in Savate and using backslap motions and other flowery moves of Tai Chi!

By real fighting on the streets, you're referring to a self defense scenario, where at least one of the combatives is usually committing a crime, probably assault and battery, maybe something more serious.
That being said, you have to ask yourself if your experience with Pro Kickboxers is greater or less than a little bit.
As for "flowery moves of Tai Chi", I'm going to go out on a limb here and say your first hand experience with Tai Chi is limited. You might want to try it out, it's really cool. Fascinating, really.

I mean seeing a Yakuza guy do a backwards spinning elbow move in Deadliest Warrior was extremely shocking!

Television can be shocking at times, yes. But it's also really cool as well. I like television. Liked Deadliest Warrior a lot, too. I wish it was still on.

Why is this? Does this mean in reality, style vs style is an extremely pointless thing and style stereotypes are not true despite how internet arguments always emphasize?

Yes, you're right on the money, bro, Style vs Style is a pointless thing. Internet arguments are pointless and sometimes frustrating. Try to avoid them at all costs.

Sort of there are some notable crime families that were martial artists. The Ibrahim's in Sidney come to mind. And they were TKDers.

John Ibrahim: How it all began

 

[Buka]

Sort of there are some notable crime families that were martial artists. The Ibrahim's in Sidney come to mind. And they were TKDers.

John Ibrahim: How it all began

Yeah, same over here. Heck, I used to wholesale boxing equipment to one of Whitey Bulger's underlings. He was a notorious criminal here.

But I think that's different than the what BULLSHERDOG was referring to.