Place of Sanchin

[punisher73]

For those of you that practice Sanchin kata, I was curious as to where you style places it.

I have heard that Sanchin is the root of Okinawan Karate and is the foundation of all other katas, so it is the first one learned.

I have also heard that Sanchin will slow a student down if it is introduced to early, and therefore is the last kata learned.

If your style does practice it, what style and where in the order does it lie?

Also, I would be interested to hear if your style does not incorporate Sanchin, have you done so for your own study (either sanchin or even something similiar like "iron thread" from Hung Gar).

 

[tshadowchaser]

Sanchin was the 2nd form I learned in my system.
I useualy teach it to students with in the first 6 months of training

If nothing else Sanchin would be the one thing they would be tested on each and every test

now consider that I teach a FMA but my instructors first roots where Okinawan and the forms he learned where also passed on to us

 

[Live True]

I study Uechi Ryu, an Okinawan form, and this is the first and most important kata. As we learn, "all is within sanchin". For me, at my begginer's stage, this kata teaches rootedness, body coherence, muscle hardening and muscle looseness in movement, and more. It is part of every belt test, from white to black, with nuances determined at each level. I started learning this kata on day one of my training, and it will be part of my first belt test at the end of this month.

I am finding that it creates a moving meditation for me, and helps me center and focus. Recently, because of my pregnancy, my sensei has started to teach me a Goju Ryu version of sanchin, because the difference in breathing and movements may be beneficial.

I'm excited to see what different versions of sanchin will bring to my practice.

 

[Noah_Legel]

My style teaches Sanchin roughly in the middle--you need to learn it for your brown belt (san-kyu). There are variations on the kata as you progress, but the basic Sanchin kata is taught at yon-kyu. We have found that if you teach it too early, it can be too technical and difficult for the student to stick with it, and it can take a very long time to understand the techniques, breathing, and tension. By the same token, if you learn it too late, it will take you a very long time to gain the benefits of practicing the kata, because you may attempt to perform it the way you have been practicing other kata all this time.

 

[D Dempsey]

When I was doing Gojuryu, it was the second kata I learned after Saifa. We did Sanchin multiple times every class with out fail followed by Tensho.

 

[Zero]

Like D Dempsy our club pick up the study and practice of Sanchin as the fourth kata, coming after Saifa. I find this is probably the most technically challenging of kata, even harder to appreciate all aspects and master than Suparinpei. In the 'hierachy' of kata, as I said Sanchin comes 4th, but my club is quite open minded in its applications and training and this is often made accessable to junior karateka just starting out. As a foundation point for goju the sooner one starts off with this the better - although I do take the comments that without proper explanation and guidance it could be totally misinterpreted and possibly detrimental to a student's understanding of movement.

 

[shoshinkan]

Historically (I beleive) sanchin is the fundamental form of the Shorei Ryu (ie Goju/Uechi Ryu) systems.

I train shorin ryu and therefore do not teach sanchin as part of the standard kata at the dojo, however I do train sanchin (a really personal version) myself as an exploritory vehicle working white crane methods.

It may be something I pass on to students but that would happen after shodan, I like them to focus on the core shorin kata (Pinan Sho/Ni, Naihanchi Sho/Ni and Passai) at least till then.

Sanchin certainly represents the foundation of the majority of Southern Chinese arts IMO.

 

[Dr Rubin Frank Rhode]

Hi Fellow Martial Artists,
I practice Goju Ryu Karate-Do, we practise Sanchin and Tensho after learning the Taikyoku and Gekisai Kata (i.e. the preparatory forms). In some of our Dojos the Saifa Kata is introduced before the Sanchin Kata. Tensho and Seinchin are taught after this. As we adavnce in our practice Sanchin becomes more important, as we sometimes use this as a testing and body conditioning training.Later we learn the Bunkai or application of these Kata (Sanchin and Tensho) in our training. For me the Kata is a personal training and challenge to work hard at perefecting my Karate. I am so grateful for my Teacher Eddie Cave, Sensei 9th Dan who is such a compassionate and hard-task Master Kata Teacher. We are corrected every time we have the opportunity to train with him (ven though we are 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Dans). Thank you so much for your posting on Sanchin.

Yours in the Spirit of Budo/Wushu

Dr Rubin Frank Rhode, Sensei (Godan)

 

[twendkata71]

We teach it after the fukyu's, Pinans and naihanchi's The style we teach is similar to Shito ryu, It comes from the Koei kan. Which is a combination of the shuri te and Naha te.

 

[chinto01]

I pose this question to people who practice sanchin on a regular basis (several times a class or a week). How much power do you use when doing the form? The reason I ask is that there are rumors that if you do this form at full power over a long period of time that it could have some adverse health conditions in the loing run (hemeroids and some stomach issues, even high blood pressure). I know it seems crazy but just wondering if you had heard this as well.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Victor Smith]

As an Isshinryu stylist Sanchin is the last kata taught before sho-dan examination. The Isshinryu Sanchin is the Miyagi Sanchin, not the Hiagonna Sanchin.

I only teach it full speed with normal breathing. The only purpose for it's practice is to use it to take any sort of attack apart.

I also teach the Uechin Sanchin to my black belts, for a study in the essence of Uechi attack.

 

[chinto]

For those of you that practice Sanchin kata, I was curious as to where you style places it.

I have heard that Sanchin is the root of Okinawan Karate and is the foundation of all other katas, so it is the first one learned.

I have also heard that Sanchin will slow a student down if it is introduced to early, and therefore is the last kata learned.

If your style does practice it, what style and where in the order does it lie?

Also, I would be interested to hear if your style does not incorporate Sanchin, have you done so for your own study (either sanchin or even something similiar like "iron thread" from Hung Gar).

we are a Shorin ryu system but do teach sanchin and seichin kata at brown belt level.

 

[Live True]

I pose this question to people who practice sanchin on a regular basis (several times a class or a week). How much power do you use when doing the form? The reason I ask is that there are rumors that if you do this form at full power over a long period of time that it could have some adverse health conditions in the loing run (hemeroids and some stomach issues, even high blood pressure). I know it seems crazy but just wondering if you had heard this as well.

Rob,
Most of what I have found on injuries related to sanchin involves a particular type of breathing. Different schools teach variations on the breathing technique for Sanchin. In most injury type scenarios, the faulty breathing technique involved a bit of a Valsalva breathe (holding your breathe and bearing down while in the most strenous parts of the movement). There is some arguement over whether this is the correct type of breathing (as originally practices in Okinawa) and if the related health issues you mentioned were caused by this breathing or by other environmental factors (nutrition, etc.) of the old masters.

For our part, my club practices a combination of dragon breathing and "dolphin" breathing (continual light breaths that do not mirror the movements and maintain a constant slight inflation of lungs/core). The breaths are not supposed to match the movements, as that makes your movements more predictive. Not all schools agree with this type of breathing or the logic behind it.

My recent reading notes that Uechi Kanei would encourage students to breathe as comes naturally and also to practice Sanchin at various speeds for each practice (slow and relaxed, slow and focus, strongly/focused/fast).

That is one viewpoint, and I hope it helps.

 

[jim777]

We start it after the taikyoku's and in house katas, at 6th kyu.

jim

 

[Cirdan]

Sanchin is part of the 1.Dan curriculum at our Wado school. I am not sure if other practicioners of Wado use Sanchin much, but the chinese influence on Karate plays an importent role in the higher levels for us.

 

[Jai]

We do not teach it as part of our system, and I really wish we did. There has been talk of allowing our black belts to study it as a "bonus" kata of sorts.

 

[jkembry]

For my style, Uechi-ryu, Sanchin is the kata that is tested at every rank, and to me is the one that provides continuity to the art. My Sensei says "all is in Sanchin", which to me means a consolidation of breathing, strength and posture. Being new at this, I don't think I have ever done this correctly all the way through, but I can say that at times the bits and pieces that I do that are correct, I can feel it. I can also feel when it isn't correct.

Some elements are in other kata such as Kanshiwa and Kanshu. I practice Sanchin at home and mentally in my head during my commute to and from work and find that it seems to get me ready for the day.

While all kata are important in their own way, Sanchin holds a special importance for me.

- Jeff -

 

[Tae Kwon Dave]

Hy guys!!!
It's possible to find pictures (diagrams, photos) of sanchin no kata?
Thanks a lot!

 

[jkembry]

Search for "Sanchin Kata" on You will see a variety of styles presented.

 

[TimoS]

Also, I would be interested to hear if your style does not incorporate Sanchin, have you done so for your own study (either sanchin or even something similiar like "iron thread" from Hung Gar).

Our style doesn't have Sanchin in it and while it might be interesting to learn it, I think that there's already so much stuff to learn in the kata that Seibukan has (5 Pinan, 3 Naifanchi, 2 Fukyu, Seisan, Ananku, Wansu, Passai, Gojushiho, Wanchin, Chinto, Kushanku and Passai-gwa plus Tokumine-no-kon) and especially learning how to really use what in those that I really don't even miss it.
For us I guess the nearest equivalent might be Seisan. It teaches the basics and it is also a good exercise.