Sanchin Ryu

[stilldunno]

OK, it's hard to believe that you have the experience you claim to have when you have the "basics" of the system even wrong.

My mistake... didn't think the technical details were pertinent...

Basics:
1. Straight punch, fist vertical, more or less level
2. Ball kick, or whatever you want to call it, below-level snapped back kick
3. Much like straight punch only fist turned horizontal, palm up
4. Fist brought up to armpit level first, then out much like 3
5. Horizontal elbow
6. Vertical elbow
7. Knee
8. Kinda horizontal-ish diagonal knee
9. Kick done with outside of foot
10. Chuto/palm strike.

Then a few other kicks, yeah - heel thrust, and a kick with the inside of the foot, I'm not sure I remember all those.

3) 10 CBA's: What are they based on? What are they to show?

I guess a non-sanchinka could see them as combinations of strikes against one or multiple opponents, although sanchinkas ascribe to them all sorts of abstract concepts, like invisibility, so I'm sure there's some abstract concept I'd miss in any explanation.

Off the top of my head without thinking about it too much:
(Right-handed)
1. Ichi to left, backfist to right
2. San to front, hammerfist same hand down to side-ish/right-ish, ni-kick to front left side
3. Ni to front, back kick, heel thrust to side
4. Shi, chuto to side, elbow, rake/knee


4) 10 Forms: NO, forms and katas ARE
NOT the same in Sanchin-Ryu. The first 10 forms are ONE kata broken down into 10 seperate parts. Each form is a small study to illustrate a concept.

Ok, let me clarify. The 10 forms are Sanchin-ryu's term for the shorter sets, which are called kata in many other Okinawan arts. The 10 katas are the terms for the longer sets, which are called forms in many other Okinawan arts.

I suppose forms(katas) was a bit ambiguous, but know you know that I knew what I was saying.

 

[punisher73]

Thanks for clarifying for me. I have met students before that never really trained in Sanchin-Ryu, but were students if you know what I mean say some really weird things (It was a few years ago, but I heard one blackbelt say that the reason people didn't know all of the katas was because CGM hadn't gotten around to making them yet--WHAT?? Even at the time I knew the top students had seen them). I just wanted to make sure that you did know and wasn't going on hearsay.

I wasn't trying to be tricky with my CBA question, it was meant as a straight forward question. CBA's are based on ippon kumite as it was applied traditionally. Your first move isn't meant as an end all, it is meant to interupt your attackers flow giving you the opportunity to take control of the situation. It does also teach how to recycle your "energy" that is, one technique helps flow into the other without starting and stopping or just pistoning out your punches. It also teaches how to address opponents from different angles. This is for others reading the post that aren't familiar with what we are talking about.

When sparring against students from other styles who did systematically spar, I got my butt whupped. Consistently. I only ever successfully used Sanchin-ryu when I had the element of surprise.

How were you not able to use it? You mentioned Bill Adams, diddn't you ever hear him talking about learning to "box" with you basics? Without knowing you or the other styles, etc. I can't really comment on the specifics, but the people I know that have done that and weren't too good tried to fight the other person's fight with the rules that the other person was comfortable with. Sanchin-Ryu's greatest strength is when the other person wants to engage you and hurt you (look at felony fights on youtube). It CAN be applied, but it's main purpose is not to stand at a distance and try to engage each other like you see in boxing/kickboxing. That is the other reason it does not teach "formal blocking". It is far more effective to use positioning and evasion, along with head movement and parrying to deal with a punch. If the other person is telegraphing their punch,we CHOOSE to strike into the attacking limb to destroy it and take control, it is never a reactive thing. Which is why with beginners we spend more time on getting them to take the offensive and enter at angles so they don't have a reactive mindset and try "blocking" all of their attackers punches and end up playing catch up and never taking control.

 

[punisher73]

Often, a good 1/4 to 3/4s of any given class was spent talking about what I felt to be non-applicable voodoo, or development of your mental/spiritual self. To an outside observer, this wouldn't have a freaky religious tone, more of a pretend-karate tone. I'm ok with emphasis of positive values, but a lot of time was spent on this, to the detriment of teaching real self-defense skills.

Sanchin=3 battles (physical, mental, emotional or spiritual) How many fights have you been in during the past year? How many disagreements have you been in at work, family, friends? I'd be willing to bet that the later FAR outways physical confrontations. CGM Dearman found that being a good fighter was a rather shallow pursuit and one that really doesn't take alot of time if that is all you want to concentrate on. It is the development of ourselves that helps us in our everyday lives and is a lifelong pursuit. If that is not your goal, then I don't fault anyone for that. On the other hand don't fault people who do try and use Sanchin-ryu as a vehicle to learn self-defense and to better themselves. Ever notice that almost ALL of the great fighters through history turned to the more internal aspects of their art when they realized that the pure pursuit of fighting was shallow in the bigger picture? Karate has almost always been concerned with the development of the whole being and not just about fighting. So again, it sounds as if your main gripe isn't with Sanchin-ryu itself but in the pursuit of other things besides fighting.

Yes, blackbelts "volunteer" their time to do a class. CGM believes in what he does and he wants it to be for everyone. By using schools, community ed, etc. He doesn't have to worry about the costs of running a school and can keep the price VERY reasonable for anyone. In fact, my latest session I am going to be instructing is $25 for 10 weeks. The classes that do "make money" are used to keep the classes going that are struggling. The head office, does all the leg work to schedule your class, get your class, and advertise your class all out of their budget. OSKA has always been run as a non-profit organization and CGM Dearman does NOT draw his salary from that.

I remember when I was in college, I didn't have money to keep studying and when I talked to my instructor he told me to just keep showing up and to not worry about it. Sanchin-ryu isn't about the money. I have had parents that pretty much spent all of their extra money to have their kids study. I have covered some belt promotions out of my own pocket because I believe in what I do and what can be gained.

PM me if you want to discuss what classes and instructors you studied with.

 

[Fault]

It is not a belt factory, although sometimes I wonder how some people got the rank they did :wink:.

Hey KC! What KC and the punisher have been saying it totally true. Also i do wonder that at times also

 

[Haze]

I see that they have a on-line dojo. About $5 a month and you get one on one instruction from a Master.

http://sanchinsystems.com/dojo.html

 

[punisher73]

I see that they have a on-line dojo. About $5 a month and you get one on one instruction from a Master.

http://sanchinsystems.com/dojo.html

Yep, it's meant to be kind of a class in between classes. It has very short clips to spark ideas for your personal workout. They are meant to be a "seed" for your studies and it is up to you to put in the sweat and effort to make it grow and work for you.

 

[dianhsuhe]

Hey Punisher! Read this thread....Good stuff-

I like the non-profit idea. I hjave been teaching for many years without ever receiving $. I believe that martial arts, much like art galleries, should be free or close to free. All that should be required is a sincere willingness to learn and work hard.

Take care-
Jamey

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Sanchin-Ryu is bunk.

 

[dancingalone]

I'm curious what alterations & additions were made to isshin-ryu to end up with sanchin-ryu. Thought Punisher was an isshin-ryu man. Maybe he switched from sanchin-ryu.

 

[punisher73]

I'm curious what alterations & additions were made to isshin-ryu to end up with sanchin-ryu. Thought Punisher was an isshin-ryu man. Maybe he switched from sanchin-ryu.

I know alot of the history and applications of Isshin-ryu (and other arts)because I like looking at history and looking into many different arts to learn about them and what caused them to be created etc.

I have NEVER been anything other than Sanchin-Ryu through and through.

Sanchin-Ryu is bunk

Sorry you feel that way Mr. Mattocks. Everyone finds a path that they like and benefits from.

 

[punisher73]

I'm curious what alterations & additions were made to isshin-ryu to end up with sanchin-ryu. Thought Punisher was an isshin-ryu man. Maybe he switched from sanchin-ryu.

Isshin-ryu was one of the styles studied and was the last style that CGM Dearman formally taught (had an Isshin-ryu dojo in Albion) before he started Sanchin-Ryu. While there are some similarities, I would not call it an Isshin-ryu offshoot because there were many more influences that were a part of it to put a finger on X,Y,Z were added or subtracted.

Like I have said, I have looked into ALOT of different traditional arts looking at how they were created and how they train and what their techniques/strategies are. I have not found anything in those arts that are not represented in Sanchin-Ryu.

 

[dancingalone]

So what are the distinguishing traits of sanchin-ryu, physical or otherwise? Are there are lyrics or precepts you can share with us?

 

[Sanchin-E]

Sanchin-Ryu is bunk? Take a look at Bullshido.net and see what they think of Isshinryu, hehe.

 

[dancingalone]

Sanchin-Ryu is bunk? Take a look at Bullshido.net and see what they think of Isshinryu, hehe.

Frankly the bullshido crowd has a generally dim view of karate in general. Only the full-contact styles like kyokushin get any respect from them.

Anyway, since you are here, can you answer my question about sanchin-ryu's distinguishing features vs. isshin-ryu? I'm quite curious.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

http://sanchinsystems.com/dojo/mast...ert-h-dearman-discusses-sanchin-ryus-history/

 

[dancingalone]

http://sanchinsystems.com/dojo/mast...ert-h-dearman-discusses-sanchin-ryus-history/

Thanks, but that video didn't say much once one listens to it.

Summary: Dearman has been working on his system his whole life and he had some great teachers who most have never heard of. He never envisioned sanchin-ryu becoming worldwide as it (apparently) has; he just wanted to set up an affordable training option for people.

Dearman seems like a nice guy. I'll overlook the bling-bling.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Thanks, but that video didn't say much once one listens to it.

Summary: Dearman has been working on his system his whole life and he had some great teachers who most have never heard of. He never envisioned sanchin-ryu becoming worldwide as it (apparently) has; he just wanted to set up an affordable training option for people.

Dearman seems like a nice guy. I'll overlook the bling-bling.

I think you hit the high points.

 

[Sanchin-E]

I'm in the style, but I'm too much of a novice to give any useful feedback. My only point (which has been made over and over on these forums) is that every art sucks to somebody. Why bother writing empty negative comments. At least Bullshido people have reasons why they think that Karate, and isshinryu in particular, sucks.

 

[dancingalone]

Well, we know from the previous posts that sanchin-ryu has at least a version of the Chart techniques from Isshin-ryu and it seems like they also use the vertical fist and block with the muscles of the arm rather than the blade.

Some open questions I have:

Do they have all the same empty hand and kobudo kata as Isshin-ryu?

Do they follow the same koans Shimabuko learned and embedded into his teachings?

E.G.

The heart is the same as heaven and earth
The blood moving is like the moon and the sun
The manner of drinking and spitting is either hard or soft
A person's unbalance acts like a weight
The body should be able to change motion at any time
Strike when the opportunity presents itself
The eyes must see in all directions
The ears must hear everything

 

[punisher73]

Frankly the bullshido crowd has a generally dim view of karate in general. Only the full-contact styles like kyokushin get any respect from them.

Anyway, since you are here, can you answer my question about sanchin-ryu's distinguishing features vs. isshin-ryu? I'm quite curious.

I agree about the "bullshido crowd", if it's not tournament/mma fighting than it is not real/good/effective etc.

One of the main features I would say in Sanchin-Ryu is that there are no formal blocks taught. The student is taught body movement,evasion, angling to avoid an attack. Also, if the student can read/see the attack, they are taught to attack the incoming arm/leg etc. It is more an offensive mindset than a defensive one and trying to "stop" what an attacker is doing. Blocking something that comes flying towards your face is instinctual. We want to train what to do after that. Like many other okinawan based systems, the techniques are designed to injure your attacker and get away safely. They target the body's weak points and are meant for close quarter contact. If you were to look at just the physical manifestations of the techniques you would recognize most of the technques as they would be in another style. A vertical snap punch to the solar plexus is going to look the same no matter where it came from.

But, to me what really sets Sanchin-Ryu apart from other styles are the forms and katas (Forms are differentiated from katas in our style because of what they train/teach). The forms are set up to illustrate a concept and how to use that concept in an altercation. For example, Wansu teaches how to use the dump, it gives the concept of distancing, timing, how to set a dump up and gives an example of the dump. Now, the student takes that information and starts to understand it and how to "create" more dumps with proper set ups etc and how to move an attacker into position where they might be susceptible for a dump. This concept also extends to our verbal altercations in life. Most of us are more likely to get into an argument/disagreement with a loved one, friend or co-worker than getting jumped on the street. How do you handle that? The forms have the mental component that teaches de-escalation techniques and strategies based on the physical movements and ideas. I don't know of any style that teaches this concept inherent with it's physical movements.

Along with this, the forms/katas ARE set up to all be a study in multiple attackers and how to move to create human shields, how to cut off angles or approach by our attackers and how to move myself to manipulate their behavior. They also teach "how" to use the body to generate power with less effort. Reading the material from the top bunkai experts (Abernathy, Kane and Wilder) their view is that the traditional katas are NOT designed as multiple attacker sequences so again this is something different that is not reflected in Isshin-Ryu and many other styles.

I hope I answered some of what you are asking, it is very hard because it is the application/strategy that is unique and not necessarily the physical technique alone. If you have some specific follow up questions I would be happy to try and answer those.