"No Outside Game," or Another Thread About Hybrid Arts

[drop bear]

There is a difference between an eye gouge and a simple touch/thrust. You can go at the eyes FAST but with control, kinda like a serious version of the "Three stooges" eye poke. It's more about being a painful, but not debilitating, distraction that results in what @gpseymour notes, but also as he notes, because it is not an all out strike, once you are prepared for it and know how to deal with it, it's not overly difficult to deal with BUT that is the point, imo, of my "cross training" number 2.

In that case the WC guy will learn that "yeah this sudden but little damaging tactic will work against the unprepared". The BJJ guy overtime learns to be prepared. The WC guy then learns not to be overly reliant on it. Everyone learns something!

PS, unless you are practicing Iron palm training doing a thrust that is more than a "touch" will get your fingers jammed or broken fairly easily if the opponent tucks his jaw right and you hit his forehead. I know two people that practice Iron palm enough that they can slam their finger tips into their own foreheads repeatedly and you can hear the impact across the training room floor. I don't even want to think of what they could do thrusting on any soft portion of the body tbh.

Well then go roll with whatever variation of eye gouge or eye jabs you want. It is not the point. If you want to roll that way go buck wild.

 

[drop bear]

I have rolled with "eye touches", and it did change the other guy's game. If he was good enough, it didn't change the outcome, but if he had a moderate advantage, but hadn't played to protect his eyes before, it bought me what I needed to get away from his game and into mine. It's pretty easy to build a habit of dealing with that, though. A few times rolling with anything close to "eye touch" rules will cause simple adjustments that take away that advantage, since the defenses are close to strike and head control defenses.

If you roll with punches the dynamic of rolling does change a bit.

 

[Nobody Important]

If you roll with punches the dynamic of rolling does change a bit.

Agree 100%, even light pops here & there change the focus & dynamic tremendously, let alone all out bashing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Your realization about your cardio is the same way I learned about mine. I originally thought I had good cardio because normally I only compare myself with how long I last against my fellow classmates. I went to another school and discovered a new meaning to the word exhausted. Now I can't shake that feeling that I had years ago and I'm always seeking ways to push my cardio and maintain it. It's like I'm afraid of being out of breath like that again. It was the realization that once the gas is gone then there's nothing that can be done about the beating on the horizon. It wasn't a good feeling for me to be exhausted like that.

Just to be clear, when you both say "cardio", I assume you're actually talking about your "pulmo" , your ability to keep your breath regular. For me, my breath gives out long before my heartbeat reaches anything close to my target "max". I've gone back to running, and am focused on breathing. I run farther and my legs are less tired (very hilly where I live) when I control my breath properly. I look forward to that point when I can run a couple of miles again, without being out of breath. I'm hoping it only takes the few weeks it has taken in the past to get there.

 

[Vajramusti]

I was thinking of a video Dan Inosanto did where he said wing chun had "no outside game." He was talking about long-range stuff, of course. Over the last few months I thought about this statement, and it made me wonder: what style with long-range attacks would make a good hybrid with wing chun?

I don't see tae kwon do being one. In TAO OF JEET KUNE DO, Bruce Lee had some notes about savate, but I have never seen that style demonstrated so I can't say one way or the other. Lately I have been thinking that Muay Thai might be the best mix. It has long-range attacks, but it is also known as the "Art of 8 Limbs" because there are also elbow attacks. Plus Muay Thai fighters are also known for getting up close and personal by getting their opponents in "the clinch."

Anyway, it was just a thought I had about what long-range style would fit best with wing chun conceptually.

------------------
Dan imo is not an authority on wing chun.

 

[wayfaring]

Hey Bino, I just saw this. I do understand what you mean when you say from your perception you were giving the instructor trouble. You were able to use some bridge skills to prevent his gripping game.

However what I would like you to realize from that video, the instructor is going very very light. I do not know that particular instructor or his A game or competition game or even if he competes, but what I see is someone going about 30-40%, and not caring too much about you messing with his gripping game, then adjusting distance and being a little dynamic on that sweep, then submitted you from mount with an arm triangle choke.

While I did see you fending off his gripping game, and yes that possibly could go on at a higher level of output to stall his game a little, but once he had a connection to you, he used that to sweep, get mount, and submit you. Without a ton of effort.

check out this biker challenging Robson Moura...

And good job getting in there mixing it up and trying out your skills. That's how it starts....

 

[wayfaring]

The WC answer was I was just tired, sore, and out of gas lol. I did what I came to do, and I was exhausted. I was working as a bouncer at a niteclub, and I hadn't even been to sleep yet when I went and did this 5 hour seminar. And this was the second really good free roll with this guy. I was done before this one, but I realized my daughter was taking pics instead of filming so we had to go again. You see the sacrifices I make for you guy? lmao.

I will say this too, those guys train hard and their cardio is amazing. This made me realize just how bad my cardio had declined since I tore the ligaments in my knees. I had knee braces on both legs when this was filmed and didn't really have any business out there anyway lol. I drown myself in Dit Da Jow for a week after that.

But I did what I came to do and proved to myself what I wanted to see, so mission accomplished.

Good job getting in there and mixing it up. The cardio is different, and a bit training specific. If you aren't used to rolling you will burn out while they are conserving energy. May I ask what it is that you went there to see? And what did you prove? What mission was accomplished?

I'm asking because as a practitioner of both arts, I'm curious how some view both and the blend of them.

I kind of like pajama wrestling. It is chill and helps me keep stress levels down. But I most directly relate to wing chun, especially from a core identity perspective.

Peace.