Hybrid Arts

[drop bear]

Yes that is correct. A knock down is what it is. The opening is always what we know, but how we dictate things. I would suggest you think on that. Violence, you know that?

Knee riding guys is kind of epic if you can do it. Probably one of the better top side ground positions to have.

If you are striking or pinning the guy you dont have to roll off for the arm.

 

[drop bear]

I used to believe in this until one day my friend said, "If I just move back when you move in, there is no way that you can get me." I tried on him many times, he was right.

How to solve that problem? I have noticed that if I can establish a "hook" between his body and my body, when he moves back, he will "pull" my body with him. That "hook" is part of the "clinch".

Yeah but the other guy can clinch as well. You are more likely to wind up in a fifty,fifty than be in a dominant position. In which case you are not working as efficiently as you can.

Again you are eating shots on the way in. You want some result at the end of it.

 

[Transk53]

Yeah but the other guy can clinch as well. You are more likely to wind up in a fifty,fifty than be in a dominant position. In which case you are not working as efficiently as you can.

Again you are eating shots on the way in. You want some result at the end of it.

Eating the shots in, no.

 

[drop bear]

Eating the shots in, no.

Yeah that is what I tell all the guys who fight in our gym. Just avoid all of his punches. Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yeah but the other guy can clinch as well. You are more likely to wind up in a fifty,fifty than be in a dominant position. In which case you are not working as efficiently as you can.

If you are a wrestler, you will love to play the clinch game with your opponent.

Again you are eating shots on the way in. You want some result at the end of it.

Since your opponent arms are free, you will eat shots on the way in too. This is why many wrestlers when they shoot in for single or double, they will get punched on the head. If you can wrap your opponent's arms and establish a clinch, you can change a striking game into a wrestling game ASAP. IMO, that's a much safe approach - not to get hit on the way in.

Here is another example that you establish a clinch "bear hug" first, you then apply your take down afterward.

 

[wayfaring]

We dont clinch much. Just shoot straight on them. Then clinch if they are still standing.

is this why you get punched a lot?

 

[drop bear]

Since your opponent arms are free, you will eat shots on the way in too. This is why many wrestlers when they shoot in for single or double, they will get punched on the head. If you can wrap your opponent's arms and establish a clinch, you can change a striking game into a wrestling game ASAP. IMO, that's a much safe approach - not to get hit on the way in.

Here is another example that you establish a clinch "bear hug" first, you then apply your take down afterward.

you are not worried about duck unders?

The thing people miss in these demos is in general people are fighting back. So a lot of these methods wotk a bit differently.

I was trying to find a video of resisted clinching. Found this instead which is unrelated but kind of cool.

 

[drop bear]

is this why you get punched a lot?

Punched a lot less. Instead of walking through the arms. Then fighting for a takedown We go under them.

Here is coachy coach. Doing basically that.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

you are not worried about duck unders?

The other day I wrestled with a wrestler, he dodged my head lock under my arms, it gave me a chance to get him a "reverse head lock'.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Punched a lot less. Instead of walking through the arms. Then fighting for a takedown We go under them.

Here is coachy coach. Doing basically that.

In cage fight, the space is limited. if your opponent moves back a couple steps, his back will be against the wall. On open mat, if you have enough space to step back, you can get a "reverse head lock" and let him to kiss the mat.

 

[wayfaring]

If you are a wrestler, you will love to play the clinch game with your opponent.

Since your opponent arms are free, you will eat shots on the way in too. This is why many wrestlers when they shoot in for single or double, they will get punched on the head. If you can wrap your opponent's arms and establish a clinch, you can change a striking game into a wrestling game ASAP. IMO, that's a much safe approach - not to get hit on the way in.

better approach than shooting from outside.

Here is another example that you establish a clinch "bear hug" first, you then apply your take down afterward.

this mostly works until you climb the ranks enough to run into a top college or world level wrestler who will pop suplex you with overhooks when you try this.

 

[drop bear]

The other day I wrestled with a wrestler, he dodged my head lock under my arms, it gave me a chance to get him a "reverse head lock'.

Your mate dropped his head. which you should never do in a duck under.

 

[drop bear]

In cage fight, the space is limited. if your opponent moves back a couple steps, his back will be against the wall. On open mat, the attack can get a "reverse head lock" and kiss the mat almost every time.

See the post about duck unders.

 

[drop bear]

better approach than shooting from outside.


this mostly works until you climb the ranks enough to run into a top college or world level wrestler who will pop suplex you with overhooks when you try this.

Wait. Overhooks?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Your mate dropped his head. which you should never do in a duck under.

You don't care whether your opponent's head is "vertical" or "horizontal". If his head is

- vertical, you try to get him in "head lock".
- horizontal, you try to get him in "reverse head lock".

In both cases, you can drop your body weight to crash on top of his "neck joint".

 

[Flying Crane]

Thanks for the response. I wouldn't have brought it up but you are discussing me publicly with someone else here. I did see you intended your advice as honest. I tried to explain to you that you are singling out one response in the midst of a disagreement over ideas, and you are targeting condescension in one post but giving it a pass in your perceived friends posts here on several others. It doesn't sound like you got my advice there either.

The others in this argument are the ones engaging in gaslighting behavior telling everyone about who they have on their ignore list. So I was just becoming clear that this is not you as well. Thanks for your clarification. That covers my concern regarding ignore lists. Whatever the good or bad behavior is there in your opinion w/r to ignore lists, for me it also is practical. I don't want to answer people's posts who have me on their ignore list.

As I said before, from my perspective we never had a "joining of the ways" so a "parting of the ways" is unnecessary. I'm going to discuss my primary art on this forum and that may or may not involve you. I agreed with one of your comments on hybridizing dissimilar arts. So if concepts keep getting exchanged then in all likelihood I will continue to interact with you.

Fair enough. Life has enough aggravation in it for most of us, we dont need to create more for ourselves and for others here. Perhaps we have had more misunderstandings than intended hostility. I hope that is simply the case and we can put this behind us.

I will point out that I believe Juany did make at least a couple of attempts to clarify what he perceived as possible misunderstandings in order to keep the discussion on a good note, and it seemed to me that that might have gotten a different response than it did.

And I did see that you had agreed with something I said. I imagine we can find some interesting and fruitful common ground here in the various forums.

So, points have been made, let's put it behind us and move forward. Good with you?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

this mostly works until you climb the ranks enough to run into a top college or world level wrestler who will pop suplex you with overhooks when you try this.

I think you are talking about "under hook".

When you apply head lock or over hook on your opponent, it will give your opponent a chance to apply under hook on you. The chance are 50-50 there. Nobody will have advantage over the other.

One of my favor counter for head lock is the "under hook leg block". You under hook your opponent's head lock arm, use one leg to block his legs, and take him down.

 

[wayfaring]

This guy has the true hybrid art. Not Kurt, his friend at 4:30. A 6 step break dance AND a sweet sit-out to avoid a guillotine.

 

[wayfaring]

Fair enough. Life has enough aggravation in it for most of us, we dont need to create more for ourselves and for others here. Perhaps we have had more misunderstandings than intended hostility. I hope that is simply the case and we can put this behind us.

I will point out that I believe Juany did make at least a couple of attempts to clarify what he perceived as possible misunderstandings in order to keep the discussion on a good note, and it seemed to me that that might have gotten a different response than it did.

And I did see that you had agreed with something I said. I imagine we can find some interesting and fruitful common ground here in the various forums.

So, points have been made, let's put it behind us and move forward. Good with you?

Sure. I'm fine with that.

I kind of disagree with you on the Juany thing. People who manipulate and threaten and then blow up illogically when confronted then take further irrational actions probably are not going to maintain discussions on good notes, and from my experience the only way to get good responses from them are to cave in to their manipulations, which I am unwilling to accept as a condition of discussion. Now maybe I'm wrong and he'll find the intestinal fortitude to take me off ignore and address all that, but I'm not holding my breath. I can't accept a gaslighting condition as a prerequisite for discussion with an individual.

But anyway points are made on that topic and moving forward from here sure. Plenty to learn and discuss. You seem to have a background in Northern and Southern Chinese arts? Wing chun as well? What is your connection to wing chun?

 

[Flying Crane]

Sure. I'm fine with that.

I kind of disagree with you on the Juany thing. People who manipulate and threaten and then blow up illogically when confronted then take further irrational actions probably are not going to maintain discussions on good notes, and from my experience the only way to get good responses from them are to cave in to their manipulations, which I am unwilling to accept as a condition of discussion. Now maybe I'm wrong and he'll find the intestinal fortitude to take me off ignore and address all that, but I'm not holding my breath. I can't accept a gaslighting condition as a prerequisite for discussion with an individual.

But anyway points are made on that topic and moving forward from here sure. Plenty to learn and discuss. You seem to have a background in Northern and Southern Chinese arts? Wing chun as well? What is your connection to wing chun?

I trained wing chun for about 3 or 4 years, back about 15 years ago. I kept up with practicing the forms for a number of years, working on my own while I was not connected to a wing chun group. I've let the wing chun go, as well as several other things that Ive done over the years, once I got solidly grounded in Tibetan White Crane. That is the only thing I train now, but I've got a 32 year history in the martial arts, including Tracy kenpo, capoeira, taiji, a dabbling in grappling, and a touch of one or two other things along the way. But that is all history, I've found my home with the crane.