Master have right to fail everyone at BB Test?

[Hot Lunch]

If it's just a piece of cloth that any bozo with enough money can buy than why is it disrespectful to ask about it?

And that's when they pull one out of the desk drawer and offer to sell it to you.

Gerry Seymour prefers testing on a rolling basis. That works for some people.

Personally, I think that if you feel the need to ask... testing on a rolling basis doesn't really work for you. You should probably find a school that has set time in grade requirements and regularly scheduled testing intervals. If you absolutely must know where you stand, the curriculum in these schools is designed for you to know.

 

[isshinryuronin]

The point is that a black belt is just a piece of cloth that anybody with enough money can buy and that has been mentioned multiple times in this forum. That being the case, it's also been mentioned in this forum that it's disrespectful to ask your instructor about testing for said piece of cloth. If it's just a piece of cloth that any bozo with enough money can buy than why is it disrespectful to ask about it? That's silly and contradictory if you ask me.

Nobody's asking.

 

[Buka]

So as this is a thread about black belt tests I want to bring this up here. On this forum somebody once said that out of respect they would never ask their instructor when they were going to test for their next belt but especially not the black belt. As to who said that I don't remember offhand and even if I did I don't want to mention any names as that's gotten me in trouble on this forum before. Anyway, they said they would never ask when they were going to test but they would especially never ask when they would test for the black belt, out of respect.

So what I want to know is this? Why would it be especially disrespectful to ask when you're going to test for the black belt? Why would asking when you're going to test for the black belt be more disrespectful than asking when you're going to test for other belts? As people on this forum have said before black belts can be purchased at martial arts stores. I know that. I am well aware that black belts can be purchased at martial arts stores, they go for about five dollars and they will sell to anybody. That being the case why is it so disrespectful to ask about it? Why is it so disrespectful to ask about a five dollar piece of cloth?

That was me that always said that. I don’t remember anyone else saying or doing that on our forum.

It wasn’t a suggestion for anyone else to implement. It was just one of the rules and procedures in my dojo. I wrote them.

Every student knew about them from day one. Both by word and in writing. They knew if they were more interested in rank than they were in working their butts off, they were in the wrong dojo. There was also a list on the wall of the dojo with all the names, addresses and phone number of good Martial Arts schools in the area and were encouraged to try them.

Not all schools are for all people.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The point is that a black belt is just a piece of cloth that anybody with enough money can buy and that has been mentioned multiple times in this forum. That being the case, it's also been mentioned in this forum that it's disrespectful to ask your instructor about testing for said piece of cloth. If it's just a piece of cloth that any bozo with enough money can buy than why is it disrespectful to ask about it? That's silly and contradictory if you ask me.

This paragraph confuses the physical belt with the rank that bears its name. Nobody is actually asking about the black belt (physical object). They could go to awma.com and buy one if that's what they want. They're asking about the rank.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And that's when they pull one out of the desk drawer and offer to sell it to you.

Gerry Seymour prefers testing on a rolling basis. That works for some people.

Personally, I think that if you feel the need to ask... testing on a rolling basis doesn't really work for you. You should probably find a school that has set time in grade requirements and regularly scheduled testing intervals. If you absolutely must know where you stand, the curriculum in these schools is designed for you to know.

That's a good point. While I still think there's room for asking about things (within reasonable etiquette for the group), there's definitely a "fit" factor involved. What I'm comfortable with - and even prefer - some others would find annoying. And likely vice-versa.

 

[HighKick]

This paragraph confuses the physical belt with the rank that bears its name. Nobody is actually asking about the black belt (physical object). They could go to awma.com and buy one if that's what they want. They're asking about the rank.

When the tread was resurrected around post #35, I took it to say it was about the effort and time to get to the rank so that person is ready to test for said belt.
Sure a person can buy almost any certificate or belt or uniform, etc...
But if purchased with nothing supporting it, isn't it just a costume?

 

[PhotonGuy]

And that's when they pull one out of the desk drawer and offer to sell it to you.

But that's cheating.

Gerry Seymour prefers testing on a rolling basis. That works for some people.

Personally, I think that if you feel the need to ask... testing on a rolling basis doesn't really work for you. You should probably find a school that has set time in grade requirements and regularly scheduled testing intervals. If you absolutely must know where you stand, the curriculum in these schools is designed for you to know.

I think that whatever dojo you go to you should know what kind of system they've got for how students go up in belt ranks, including to the rank of black belt and beyond, and if you're unclear about anything you should ask.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Nobody's asking.

Well Im making a point anyway.

 

[PhotonGuy]

They knew if they were more interested in rank than they were in working their butts off, they were in the wrong dojo.

Some students work their butts off because they're interested in rank, because they know that to get rank they have to work their butts off.

 

[PhotonGuy]

This paragraph confuses the physical belt with the rank that bears its name. Nobody is actually asking about the black belt (physical object). They could go to awma.com and buy one if that's what they want. They're asking about the rank.

Well that's the point I've been trying to make with some of the people on this forum all along and why I consider it cheating if I were to buy a black belt when I hadn't earned the rank at a dojo.

 

[Hot Lunch]

But that's cheating.

I think that whatever dojo you go to you should know what kind of system they've got for how students go up in belt ranks, including to the rank of black belt and beyond, and if you're unclear about anything you should ask.

Okay. If they tell you "at this dojo, we test every x number of months, and here are the time in grade requirements for each grade" what other questions could you possibly have? You already have enough information to determine when you'll be eligible. If the instructor decides that you're not ready to test, they're going to tell you without you having to ask.

 

[drop bear]

Some students work their butts off because they're interested in rank, because they know that to get rank they have to work their butts off.

And to add to that. If rank shouldn't matter. Then it also shouldn't have any privileges.

And they often do.

Especially with say BJJ. where you can have a career teaching. Which makes rank matter in a very applicable way.

Eg.
https://au.jora.com/Bjj-Instructor-jobs-in-Australia?utm_campaign={au_dsa}&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw28W2BhC7ARIsAPerrcJGcHm6JSzfSAADcZnuj0xPvkG-aTnTvFoF5xXnnP6mpVnwTiI208UaAuA8EALw_wcB

 

[PhotonGuy]

Okay. If they tell you "at this dojo, we test every x number of months, and here are the time in grade requirements for each grade" what other questions could you possibly have?

At the moment, none. I've got a basic idea of how their system works so I wouldn't have any extra questions when first starting out. Later on in my training though I might have questions, such as if there's a technique or kata I need to work on more in order to be able to pass the test for my next rank, and so forth.

You already have enough information to determine when you'll be eligible. If the instructor decides that you're not ready to test, they're going to tell you without you having to ask.

Again, that depends on whatever system the instructor uses. For instance, maybe the instructor tells students who are ready to test that they're ready but says nothing to students who aren't ready. Maybe the instructor lets students sign up for the test at their own discretion but obviously the student would still have to do well enough in order to pass, and so forth.

 

[PhotonGuy]

And to add to that. If rank shouldn't matter.

To some people it does to some people it doesn't. It depends on the student.

Then it also shouldn't have any privileges.

And they often do.

Especially with say BJJ. where you can have a career teaching. Which makes rank matter in a very applicable way.

Eg.
https://au.jora.com/Bjj-Instructor-jobs-in-Australia?utm_campaign={au_dsa}&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw28W2BhC7ARIsAPerrcJGcHm6JSzfSAADcZnuj0xPvkG-aTnTvFoF5xXnnP6mpVnwTiI208UaAuA8EALw_wcB

From my experience privileges do come with rank, along with responsibilities. For instance when you get to be of a higher rank you might be expected to help teach, which is both a privilege and a responsibility.

 

[Hot Lunch]

To some people it does to some people it doesn't. It depends on the student.

It should never depend on the student. Whether rank matters or not, this needs to be established by the dojo. If you're in a dojo where rank doesn't matter, you don't want to be that student going around and flexing their rank. I'm fairly certain that it goes the other way as well: if rank matters at the dojo and you have rank, you probably don't want to be that guy who isn't as engaged with the lower ranking students as he or she is expected to be.

From my experience privileges do come with rank, along with responsibilities. For instance when you get to be of a higher rank you might be expected to help teach, which is both a privilege and a responsibility.

That was the case at my last dojo. Not my current one. I do remember reading somewhere (and it may have been on this forum, I can't remember) that Okinawan culture is more stratified than Japanese culture, so when the kyu/dan rank system was introduced to Okinawa, it meant that "rank means something" moreso in Okinawan styles than Japanese.

 

[PhotonGuy]

It should never depend on the student. Whether rank matters or not, this needs to be established by the dojo. If you're in a dojo where rank doesn't matter, you don't want to be that student going around and flexing their rank.

If there's a dojo where rank truly doesn't matter than said dojo wouldn't even have rank. There are some dojos and arts that don't have ranking systems, Muai Thai for instance. But if a dojo does have rank than rank does matter there at least to some degree.

I'm fairly certain that it goes the other way as well: if rank matters at the dojo and you have rank, you probably don't want to be that guy who isn't as engaged with the lower ranking students as he or she is expected to be.

Generally speaking you're going to be working with people who are at the same or similar rank as you when you're doing drills, although if you're of a higher rank you might be working with lower ranking students if you're teaching them since if you're a higher ranking student you might sometimes be expected to help teach lower ranking students.

 

[Hot Lunch]

If there's a dojo where rank truly doesn't matter than said dojo wouldn't even have rank. There are some dojos and arts that don't have ranking systems, Muai Thai for instance. But if a dojo does have rank than rank does matter there at least to some degree.

No. Just, no.

For some schools, rank is simply an indicator of where you are in the curriculum and nothing more. That's not rank "mattering."

Rank "mattering" is where it's an indicator of responsibilities and/or privileges.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Here is a video on what the black belt means.

 

[PhotonGuy]

No. Just, no.

For some schools, rank is simply an indicator of where you are in the curriculum and nothing more. That's not rank "mattering."

Rank "mattering" is where it's an indicator of responsibilities and/or privileges.

Well that's your definition of what "mattering" means. If rank is an indicator of where you are then it does mean something.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Well that's your definition of what "mattering" means. If rank is an indicator of where you are then it does mean something.

In this context, there's a difference between "mattering" and "meaning something." Without attempting to take this conversation down a whole 'nother rabbit hole, rank "matters" when it affects interactions between people of different ranks.

If rank is simply an indicator of place within the curriculum and nothing more, then interactions between people of different ranks remains unaffected.

If privileges, responsibilities, and authority come with rank, then that affects relationships in the dojo. That's when it matters.