Martial Arts are Witchcraft, just ask this guy!

[donnaTKD]

i was trying to bring it back with my last post

on other point the OP talks of witchcraft of which spirits are a big part of and contacting them through various devious demons is just an active part of that --- my spirits lie in muay thai and my demons try to stop me having fun

 

[crushing]

Folks, things are drifting a tad away from a General Martial Arts forum topic. I think the discussion of faith and scripture is fascinating, and would be a great discussion, maybe in The Study, maybe in Philosophy & Spirituality in The Arts -- but let's try to stay on topic here.

Re-reading the OP and unless I misunderstood it, it seems to me that faith and scripture is absolutely what this topic is about. For faith and scripture are the foundation for the superstitious aversion to 'martial arts as witchcraft' offered in the OP and others that have shared their experiences in this thread. A quote in the OP specifically references Leviticus 19:31 "Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God." Exodus 22:18 takes it to a whole new level and is very clear that death is the punishment for the faithful to mete out to those that engage in witchcraft.

Some mystics may interpret the scriptures differently, or they may have a completely different understanding of martial arts to where they don't think their chosen holy texts prohibit martial arts. In comparing such interpretations and understandings, excluding faith and relevant scriptures would make the discussion difficult.


Respectfully,
crushing

 

[donnaTKD]

that was my take on it too. so unless someone has changed the OP to mean something else entirely then what's been written stands as a valid response to the OP and we're still on topic

 

[donald1]

Being I am a Christian, I just want to let you know, regardless of what you may do, God does love you. He would hate anything you do that is a sin, but you He loves.

God is Omnibenevolence , he does not hate. I'm certain he would not want someone to do wrong but he forgives

I wonder what makes these people believe martial arts is witch craft im certain it does not call it that in the Bible i do not know much of other religions but it would seem strange if they did.
If some people are raised to believe that that would make sense but then you could ask the people who told them that and so on. However maybe it is a simple answer and I am over thinking

 

[drop bear]

God is Omnibenevolence , he does not hate. I'm certain he would not want someone to do wrong but he forgives

I wonder what makes these people believe martial arts is witch craft im certain it does not call it that in the Bible i do not know much of other religions but it would seem strange if they did.
If some people are raised to believe that that would make sense but then you could ask the people who told them that and so on. However maybe it is a simple answer and I am over thinking

Well it would be worship of a false idol. Which some people have a thing about.

I did some kick boxing in a Muslim area and they couldn't bow properly because it was not Mecca.

It was a kick boxing/tkd school so the bowing.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well it would be worship of a false idol. Which some people have a thing about.

I did some kick boxing in a Muslim area and they couldn't bow properly because it was not Mecca.

It was a kick boxing/tkd school so the bowing.

Not to mention all the Dragon Talk, and the Chi energy stuff. There are real concerns that people have to weigh against their beliefs. Just because your teacher is a great guy, doesn't mean his ways aren't foreign and difficult to understand.

 

[donnaTKD]

i train wherever and if that offends people then it offends them --- i'm not going to stop training in a certain place just cos it goes against someone else's beliefs. personally i believe that everyone should have the right to choose what they do and how they do it.

if someone is unable to do something cos of their beliefs then that's their problem doesn't mean that everyone else is just suddenly going to stop doing it. also i think that people put religion before their art far too often - muay thai and other MA are done in a certain way out of respect to that art not cos some religious person says.

 

[Touch Of Death]

i train wherever and if that offends people then it offends them --- i'm not going to stop training in a certain place just cos it goes against someone else's beliefs. personally i believe that everyone should have the right to choose what they do and how they do it.

if someone is unable to do something cos of their beliefs then that's their problem doesn't mean that everyone else is just suddenly going to stop doing it. also i think that people put religion before their art far too often - muay thai and other MA are done in a certain way out of respect to that art not cos some religious person says.

If you mean people use religion as an excuse to not stay fit, I am with you, but your wording is going to turn everyone off but a few friends of mine. LOL

 

[Buka]

My dad was born in 1888 in dirt poor, rural Italy. 63 years later I was born in Boston. When I was four my mom wanted me to start going to church. Dad told her, "Take him to every church, let him decide which one he wants to belong to."

So for the next year and a half mom would take me into "downtown Boston" (her phrase) and we'd go to a different church every weekend. We would go to a Protestant church one week, a Baptist church the next, a Synagogue the following, a Catholic the next, Methodist after that and on and on. I don't know how things are today, but when we were noticed we were welcome with open arms. Most times we just sat through the services going along with whatever they were doing. For a little kid who had never been in a church before it was pretty awesome. And churches were beautiful. They were unlike anything I had ever seen.

Little kids are usually taught by their parents and teachers. But religion and churches weren't really discussed in my house so I had no preconceived notions. All I knew was that churches were different than anything I had seen. They looked different, they felt different, they smelled different, they sounded different, the benches were uncomfortable and sometimes there was singing.

After a year and half of this, there was one thing I felt more than thought......they were all praying to the same Guy. They just weren't sure what to call him.

 

[donnaTKD]

T O D sorry for not explaining properly - my bad

i meant that some people use their religion as way of not taking part in activities. don't know if it's something that's common all over the world but certainly here and the places in the uk that i've lived in - i've noticed that people that are not native to our country tend to "not care about themselves" too much - like they're overweight and still eating more fat, exercise is seen as the devils work. and peoplt get laughed at and stared at for daring to exercise.

some people won't associate with people that work out -- strange one this that i've noticed but totally true -- someone said to me once why do you do all that exercise - "you're gunna kill yourself" (i had a heart attack last september) so maybe some truth in this statement LoL and other say that "you wouldn't catch me doing any of that" so it musy be witch craft or sorcery that's taking place and i must be devilsh to take on satans work

 

[wingchun100]

I was raised in a home where religion wasn't very strong, so forgive me if I come as ignorant by asking this...but what part of any religion would ban a person from working out to be in better shape? I have never heard that sentiment before.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I was raised in a home where religion wasn't very strong, so forgive me if I come as ignorant by asking this...but what part of any religion would ban a person from working out to be in better shape? I have never heard that sentiment before.

Your reasons for joining a cult like karate group are not their concern. Their concern is that you joined a cult like karate group.

 

[wingchun100]

Your reasons for joining a cult like karate group are not their concern. Their concern is that you joined a cult like karate group.

Oh we are still on the "martial art as cult" subject. When donnaTKD said exercise, I thought she meant lifting weights and so on as well. LOL

 

[donald1]

I have known a lot of Christians but never heard them have any dislikes towards fitness or martial arts (that could be because they might not know any martial arts groups) but one thing I'm certain of is a lot of people have their idea of what is"right or wrong " and truly believe they are correct that whatever they are against (could be martial arts like mentioned in this category) but a lot of people will almost always refuse evidence because that is what they believe in. And I'm pretty sure they spread their beliefs to their children (making the next generation similar)

 

[drop bear]

T O D sorry for not explaining properly - my bad

i meant that some people use their religion as way of not taking part in activities. don't know if it's something that's common all over the world but certainly here and the places in the uk that i've lived in - i've noticed that people that are not native to our country tend to "not care about themselves" too much - like they're overweight and still eating more fat, exercise is seen as the devils work. and peoplt get laughed at and stared at for daring to exercise.

some people won't associate with people that work out -- strange one this that i've noticed but totally true -- someone said to me once why do you do all that exercise - "you're gunna kill yourself" (i had a heart attack last september) so maybe some truth in this statement LoL and other say that "you wouldn't catch me doing any of that" so it musy be witch craft or sorcery that's taking place and i must be devilsh to take on satans work

I think that might be cultural because poor people work hard and are skinny.

 

[donnaTKD]

maybe but i've lived in some really rough places and it's always the "outsiders" that look at us natives as though we're different creatures.

i'll explain a bit of my reasoning - so bear with me - the indians, pakistanis, greeks etc.... have loads of fat in their food - especially the greeks -- but they won't or can't be bothered to exercise and so become a drain on this countrys facilities --- hospitals are full of people with type 2 diabetics, people needing hips and knees cos they're obese etc.... and yet it's us people that are in shape, that do look after themselves and don't go reaching for a chocolate cookie every 5 minutes that take the flack for it.

maybe it is a cultural thing but even their kids don't go running round chasing a ball or whatever, i just find the whole thing sad. i went to the gym last tuesday and there were some big guys there from eastern europe and they couldn't take more than 15minutes of a not really that hard one hour session - the people left standing at the end were the natives and we all had a kick off in the ring.

i know that my beliefs have been challenged cos i believe in muay thai (traditional) values and it's belief system where hard work time and effort get rewarded with muscles and a fresher feel with a brighter outlook on things. i am by no means rich but for £2 a time i can afford to use the gym. i don't even see people from other cultures riding bicycles or skateboards or anything like that and they rarely walk anywhere they just eat more and more ............

oh and cos they are a heart attck waiting to happen they're deemed not fit enough to work so can get state benefits which basically keeps them in fat every month -- totally wrong in my view.........

 

[Touch Of Death]

maybe but i've lived in some really rough places and it's always the "outsiders" that look at us natives as though we're different creatures.

i'll explain a bit of my reasoning - so bear with me - the indians, pakistanis, greeks etc.... have loads of fat in their food - especially the greeks -- but they won't or can't be bothered to exercise and so become a drain on this countrys facilities --- hospitals are full of people with type 2 diabetics, people needing hips and knees cos they're obese etc.... and yet it's us people that are in shape, that do look after themselves and don't go reaching for a chocolate cookie every 5 minutes that take the flack for it.

maybe it is a cultural thing but even their kids don't go running round chasing a ball or whatever, i just find the whole thing sad. i went to the gym last tuesday and there were some big guys there from eastern europe and they couldn't take more than 15minutes of a not really that hard one hour session - the people left standing at the end were the natives and we all had a kick off in the ring.

i know that my beliefs have been challenged cos i believe in muay thai (traditional) values and it's belief system where hard work time and effort get rewarded with muscles and a fresher feel with a brighter outlook on things. i am by no means rich but for £2 a time i can afford to use the gym. i don't even see people from other cultures riding bicycles or skateboards or anything like that and they rarely walk anywhere they just eat more and more ............

oh and cos they are a heart attck waiting to happen they're deemed not fit enough to work so can get state benefits which basically keeps them in fat every month -- totally wrong in my view.........

The lord helps those who help themselves... You are a Calvinist. No big whoop.

 

[Xue Sheng]

i went to the gym last tuesday and there were some big guys there from eastern europe and they couldn't take more than 15minutes of a not really that hard one hour session -

I am not saying this is the case but I have a question about this

But what if there reason for being there is to get into shape so they can take more than 15 minutes of a not really that hard one hour session because they can be bothered to exercise, and so they do not become a drain on your country’s facilities, so they don’t find themselves in a hospital with type 2 diabetics and people needing hip and knee replacements because they're obese. What if they are there so they can lose weight, get in shape and not be obese? And have decided to not reach for a chocolate cookie every 5 minutes and change their way of eating and not be a heart attack waiting to happen. What if they are there because they want to believe in Muay Thai (traditional) values and it's belief system where hard work time and effort get rewarded with muscles and a fresher feel with a brighter outlook on things.

If that is the case should they be profiled, should a book be judged by its cover, should it be assumed they are not worthy to be there, that they are running contrary to Muay Thai values should they be ostracized and made fun of (quietly of course in whispers). Or should one take the time to get to know them and find out why they are there and if it is for the right reasons would it not be better to help them.

I have been at this MA stuff for a very long time, and I spent several years working in hospitals (in my country) and I have seen a lot, but I still tend to look at each person coming in as in individual and not part of a group and it is possible with that view maybe, just maybe your countries facilities may find themselves a little less stressed, even if that is by only 1 or 2 people, it is still less stress.

Just taking a different POV from the sidelines, which means it is highly possible I have no idea what I am talking about because I’m not there

 

[donnaTKD]

the thing is the gym that i go to every tuesday is a fight only gym - put simply you're there to learn the art of muay thai in a ring - you gotta be able to stay the pace, those sessions are not your standard workouts you're there to fight end of. so you gotta be able to go the distance no matter how much it hurts (and it does) cos you could be in the ring for upto half an hour.

if people want a workout then they oughta be going elsewhere cos the only things in fight club are a few bags a cushioned floor and people that are there to fight -- there are no machines no weight benches no nothing. everyone knows it's a fight club and not a keep fit gym (there's one of those next door to the fight club) so the people that go should already be in reasonable shape. there are other gyms available for getting in shape before you consider joining fight club.

people that turn up don't get laughed at - they just get sent out if they can't take the pace s'all. if it's their first time through the door then people do want to know about them, they are made to feel welcome.

but having said all that the people that turn up at the gym for a session are the ones that are trying to do something about their health it's the rest of their community that lets the side down and just carries on regardless of the outcome --- this is what i hate.

the thing with state benefits - i think that obese people should be given a local authority gym membership card and they only get benefits if they lose weight -- just my view of what needs to be done, people lifestyles need to change and gym's need to become more inviting places for larger people - the equipment is already there and it's over engineered to take the weight of the person

and with a little bit hocus pocus wizardry it might actually happen

 

[tshadowchaser]

I think that might be cultural because poor people work hard and are skinny.

off subject but not in my town,at least half the poor are fat, lazy,, and would rather be on welfare than have to work.
But that is a debate for a different thread.