Martial Arts are Witchcraft, just ask this guy!

[wingchun100]

No they just flip out in other ways.

I know. One of my friends almost COULDN'T be my friend anymore because his parents thought I was a bad influence.

I guess encouraging someone to have fun every now and then instead of studying themselves to death is enough to make someone qualify for that label from them.

 

[blackxpress]

I've never trained with any Muslims or observant Jews so I wouldn't really know about such things.

 

[wingchun100]

I've never trained with any Muslims or observant Jews so I wouldn't really know about such things.

My friend's PARENTS were observant, but he wasn't. He used to call himself a "fake Jew."

 

[donnaTKD]

i find it funny that religion always comes into the fray at some point - never understood why. my reasoning is that i've seen and trained alongside people from all walks of life, different cultural backgrounds but once in the gym that all goes out of the window. people don't go forcing their ideas down your throat like they do outside the gym (i hate that) expecting you to change to their system of beliefs -- i believe in my training and the comfort and tranquility that i get from that and if that's devils work then hell i'll have lots more please

i got my flat tummy with plenty of muscles - so i'm not going to be strain on the health system - i'm fitter than i've ever been, i feel more "alive" in myself and yet i don't go to church cos my gym is my church, the stuff that's preached is beneficial to me in both the short and the long term, i don't don't go around invading countries and killing people cos that's not right in my book but hell muslims seem to think that's ok, the christians just fight and argue for the hell of it and the catholics would have us believe that more kids in the world would be better for us all. they all say that being a lesbian is devilish but no reason as to where they got that thought from.

forget this joker and his non devilish views and go back to your gym / dojo and do some more and think of him when you're knocking seven shades out of a bag

 

[oftheherd1]

It was just meant as an example to show how no other religion seems to flip out like this. If the choice of religion matters, fine: I have never seen JEWISH parents pull their kids out for religion reasons.

There need not be any flipping out, nor for that matter, any reason given for why a student is taken out of class. Have you considered that perhaps they were hoping you could show them how it wasn't true?

Also, you might want to read my post #22 above. Most major religions don't accommodate belief in another religious systems. You can't be Christian and Muslim, nor vice versa. From what I have seen and read, if you want to see a Muslim get extremely agitated, try to get one of their family to convert to Christianity, or any other religion. So apparently no Muslims you have known considered the MA you were teaching to be a religion.

I am curious though, suppose a person's religion does not allow a person to practice another religion also. Wouldn't you think them lacking in belief, or insincere, in the practice of the religion that didn't allow another religion to be practiced? Wouldn't you think it more appropriate if they did in fact decline to practice what they thought to be another religion? That whether or not you or I agreed? I wouldn't condone violence in rejecting another religion, nor would I think it appropriate to be contentious in declining to practice the other religion. But I would respect their choice whether I agreed with their reasoning for making that choice or not.

 

[wingchun100]

There need not be any flipping out, nor for that matter, any reason given for why a student is taken out of class. Have you considered that perhaps they were hoping you could show them how it wasn't true?

Also, you might want to read my post #22 above. Most major religions don't accommodate belief in another religious systems. You can't be Christian and Muslim, nor vice versa. From what I have seen and read, if you want to see a Muslim get extremely agitated, try to get one of their family to convert to Christianity, or any other religion. So apparently no Muslims you have known considered the MA you were teaching to be a religion.

I am curious though, suppose a person's religion does not allow a person to practice another religion also. Wouldn't you think them lacking in belief, or insincere, in the practice of the religion that didn't allow another religion to be practiced? Wouldn't you think it more appropriate if they did in fact decline to practice what they thought to be another religion? That whether or not you or I agreed? I wouldn't condone violence in rejecting another religion, nor would I think it appropriate to be contentious in declining to practice the other religion. But I would respect their choice whether I agreed with their reasoning for making that choice or not.

It wasn't my student. Why are you assuming I am a teacher? I was just a student at the time it happened, but I overheard it being discussed. And martial arts in and of itself is not a "religion," nor does it teach anyone to leave their religion for another. And who is disagreeing with anything? If that is why they wanted to withdraw their kid, that is their right. And I have the right to think it is a silly reason.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Most major religions don't accommodate belief in another religious systems. You can't be Christian and Muslim, nor vice versa.

That would be primarily true of the monotheistic religions. For example, there are many Japanese who practice both Buddhism and Shinto. Even within the monotheistic religions, there are plenty of people who don't believe that members of other faiths are necessarily demon-worshipping servants of evil.

I am curious though, suppose a person's religion does not allow a person to practice another religion also. Wouldn't you think them lacking in belief, or insincere, in the practice of the religion that didn't allow another religion to be practiced? Wouldn't you think it more appropriate if they did in fact decline to practice what they thought to be another religion? That whether or not you or I agreed? I wouldn't condone violence in rejecting another religion, nor would I think it appropriate to be contentious in declining to practice the other religion. But I would respect their choice whether I agreed with their reasoning for making that choice or not.

The question wasn't directed at me, but I have no objection to a religious person declining to practice something that they see as the expression of a competing religion. My problem is with a worldview that conceives of all the world beyond a very narrow frame of reference as "evil" and "demonic." I think that sort of worldview hurts the individuals who hold it, the children who are raised in it, and society at large.

 

[donnaTKD]

MA is like a no mans land in a war zone. battle doesn't take place in the dojo cos it's a learning centre people put everything to one side for however long you're all there for and then at the end everyone goes back to doing what they were all doing before.

MA doesn't pick sides, colours, religions etc..... it's the people that attend that do that and the love ones of those that go who help spread rumours. there is no place for religion, violence, abuse or anything else in a gym / dojo and the author of the piece would be as well to remember that. it doesn't matter what the teacher believes in cos there's a curriculum to follow - it's just like normal school - everyone goes to learn first and foremost ---- so the teachers are satan teaching satanic forms

had a thought --- what would happen if someone rocked up in say iraq and said put down the guns and get in the ring and settle your differences -- don't you think it would be really peaceful ????? might go total polar though and create more violence if one side loses bigtime................ho hum.............

 

[RTKDCMB]

i find it funny that religion always comes into the fray at some point - never understood why.

Well considering the OP is about witchcraft it is hardly surprising in this instance.

 

[donnaTKD]

can understand your point but witchcraft is part of the dark arts spectrum of things and not a religion though.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

can understand your point but witchcraft is part of the dark arts spectrum of things and not a religion though.

a) Practitioners of Wicca would tell you that witchcraft is indeed a religion and not "dark arts."
b) Folks like the person who wrote the original article linked in this post typically perceive other religions (Islam, Buddhism, Mormonism, whatever) as being actually "dark arts" and "demon worship" rather than legitimate faiths like their own.

 

[Dirty Dog]

can understand your point but witchcraft is part of the dark arts spectrum of things and not a religion though.

There are plenty of people who will tell you that witchcraft is their religion, and will adamantly deny that it has anything to do with "dark arts".
Personally, I know a number of wiccans and I don't think any of them are evil.

 

[Touch Of Death]

There are plenty of people who will tell you that witchcraft is their religion, and will adamantly deny that it has anything to do with "dark arts".
Personally, I know a number of wiccans and I don't think any of them are evil.

Nobody thinks that they are evil, it just happens.

 

[Touch Of Death]

This is a pre-Abrahamic concept, but instead of good and evil, it is "Us and The Other".

 

[oftheherd1]

i find it funny that religion always comes into the fray at some point - never understood why. my reasoning is that i've seen and trained alongside people from all walks of life, different cultural backgrounds but once in the gym that all goes out of the window. people don't go forcing their ideas down your throat like they do outside the gym (i hate that) expecting you to change to their system of beliefs -- i believe in my training and the comfort and tranquility that i get from that and if that's devils work then hell i'll have lots more please

i got my flat tummy with plenty of muscles - so i'm not going to be strain on the health system - i'm fitter than i've ever been, i feel more "alive" in myself and yet i don't go to church cos my gym is my church, the stuff that's preached is beneficial to me in both the short and the long term, i don't don't go around invading countries and killing people cos that's not right in my book but hell muslims seem to think that's ok, the christians just fight and argue for the hell of it and the catholics would have us believe that more kids in the world would be better for us all. they all say that being a lesbian is devilish but no reason as to where they got that thought from.

forget this joker and his non devilish views and go back to your gym / dojo and do some more and think of him when you're knocking seven shades out of a bag

Interesting that you consider your gym to be your church where you receive preaching, but don't understand why religion always comes into the fray. Maybe you meant to give another meaning?

Anyway, your religion is your concern and your beliefs are yours to be right or wrong about, as with all of us. But I can help you with what reasons Christians should be giving as to why lesbianism or homosexuality are sin. There are various places in the Old Testament, that talk about sodomy as sin, such as Deuteronomy 23:17,

17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

or in Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

and in the New Testament, in the 1st chapter of the book of Romans in the Bible.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:


27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

You may want to do a search on BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages. for 'sodomy' and 'sodomites' as well as reading about Sodom and Lot. Then read the whole of the 1st chapter of Romans for context. But basically, neither women nor men should have same-sex intercourse, that being against nature.

You may believe in the Bible or not, or practice Christianity or not, but the Bible does show it to be sin and abomination. So when people you talk to say it is wrong, but don't know where in the Bible it says so, you can show them something they don't know.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Interesting that you consider your gym to be your church where you receive preaching, but don't understand why religion always comes into the fray. Maybe you meant to give another meaning?

Anyway, your religion is your concern and your beliefs are yours to be right or wrong about, as with all of us. But I can help you with what reasons Christians should be giving as to why lesbianism or homosexuality are sin. There are various places in the Old Testament, that talk about sodomy as sin, such as Deuteronomy 23:17,



or in Leviticus 18:22


and in the New Testament, in the 1st chapter of the book of Romans in the Bible.



You may want to do a search on BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages. for 'sodomy' and 'sodomites' as well as reading about Sodom and Lot. Then read the whole of the 1st chapter of Romans for context. But basically, neither women nor men should have same-sex intercourse, that being against nature.

You may believe in the Bible or not, or practice Christianity or not, but the Bible does show it to be sin and abomination. So when people you talk to say it is wrong, but don't know where in the Bible it says so, you can show them something they don't know.

Muppet news flash: Everyone knows that is in the bible.

 

[oftheherd1]

It wasn't my student. Why are you assuming I am a teacher? I was just a student at the time it happened, but I overheard it being discussed. And martial arts in and of itself is not a "religion," nor does it teach anyone to leave their religion for another. And who is disagreeing with anything? If that is why they wanted to withdraw their kid, that is their right. And I have the right to think it is a silly reason.

OK, you're not a teacher. Apologies. But as to whether or not MA is a religion or not, remember, we here are martial artists, so we see from a different perspective. Not all non-MA will believe martial arts are religions, but some, not knowing what they have seen, and others they talk to, taking things out of context, may mistakenly believe so. And I dare say there are some martial arts which started out with religious beliefs in them, and some may retain some of that. Shaolin Kung Fu is usually credited with that, and as I mentioned before, so is the Japanese Zen Buddhism and some of the Japanese martial arts there.

That would be primarily true of the monotheistic religions. For example, there are many Japanese who practice both Buddhism and Shinto. Even within the monotheistic religions, there are plenty of people who don't believe that members of other faiths are necessarily demon-worshipping servants of evil.

That is indeed so reference Buddhism and Shinto, Buddhism apparently not caring, or its Shinto believers not understanding Buddhism. Not being either, I cannot really comment about their beliefs in detail.

The question wasn't directed at me, but I have no objection to a religious person declining to practice something that they see as the expression of a competing religion. My problem is with a worldview that conceives of all the world beyond a very narrow frame of reference as "evil" and "demonic." I think that sort of worldview hurts the individuals who hold it, the children who are raised in it, and society at large.

I wouldn't use the word competing so much as what is seen as a false religion. I stated above why a Christian must see non-Christian religions as wrong and false. However, I think a correct Christian should not hate the person who practices a false religion, so much as the sins of a false religion. And a correct Christian, should he decide to try and proselytize, should do it in a loving manner, pointing out the truths of Christianity, and not simply putting down the other religion. That won't incline most practitioners of other religions to want to hear what the Christian has to say. If all they perceive is an attack they will normally defend only, not listen to see if there is anything worth listening to.

 

[oftheherd1]

Muppet news flash: Everyone knows that is in the bible.

Perhaps, I am not so sure. But it appeared donnaTKD did not, so I thought it worth while to point it out.

 

[crushing]

Along the same lines as homosexuality in the Bible, but back on the subject of witchcraft; when considering Exodus 22:18, maybe it's in the best interest of those that think of martial arts as witchcraft do stay away. If they truly have faith in their holy text and believe it to be the truth and word of god, the outcome could be disastrous.

 

[Buka]

I ran a large, busy, well respected dojo in the eighties and nineties. A lot of the kids class went to a Catholic grammar school that was a quarter mile away. We didn't teach any religion and the kids were told to honor whatever their parents taught them.

So one day there was a problem with two of the kids, both age twelve. I can't even remember what the problem was, but one of them was lying. They both swore they were telling the truth. They both went to the Catholic school.

I put on a suit and tie and knocked on the front door (after classes at the school) to ask their help with the kids. A lay teacher answered and I politely explained my predicament. She said she would get the boss. (A mother superior) As I introduced myself and explained to the Nun - she interrupted me. I'll never forget what she said, "I do NOT speak to heathens!" And she slammed the door in my face. It was a big door. I have a small face. My nose bled all over my nice suit and white shirt, and all I could say was, "Wow, that was different."

So, okay, no help there. I didn't know what happened the following week until the next Monday, when twenty parents came walking into the dojo. They wanted to tell me something. They showed me a letter that was sent out to the parents of every student in their School. (Most Precious Blood) (hell of a name -says the heathen) The letter told them if any children went to the "heathen Martial arts classes" they would be expelled from the Catholic school. I damn near crapped. Then the parents told me that they all went up there, forty strong, and told Mother Superior that they were all going to pull their children out of the catholic school if they ever tried to interfere in their child's study of Martial Arts. It cost a LOT of money to go to that Catholic school. They also went to the Monsignor and told him the same thing. He got on that like FAST. Nothing talks like money and bad press.

I got a letter about a week later from Mom Superior telling me it was a "misunderstanding" and we were "welcome to come do a demo at the school". I respectfully declined.

I should point out that I went to that Church as a kid, went to their CYO, and became a chaperone to the kids in the CYO as a young adult. That was almost thirty years ago and I know a lot has changed. But it was the last straw for me in a life that watched the "Holy people" be anything but. That Monsignor, by the way, was excommunicated in a sex scandal years later. He also used to shack up with notorious Boston mobster Whitey Bulger. As a cop, we had a lot of paper on him. (It made for an interesting read)

So....no reason to share this other than wanting to get it off my chest. And to point out that some of us "heathens" might actually have a reason for being that way. Martial Arts has taught me more by example than any Church I ever attended.