lack of serious martial artists

[Diagen]

Not quite sure which forums those are they sound prickly.

Very. Or belligerant.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Angry people tend to be high-functioning people.

I'd like to see some support for this claim. The truly angry people I've known were impaired in their ability to function, because of their effect on others. For many of them, it got in the way of career progression. I can think of some notable exceptions, but I suspect you're confusing a personality trait (being quick to flash anger, quick to cool - a common trait among people who tend to be task driven) with generally being angry.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You can't separate one's volition and experience from the physiology that isn't even logical. You would be suggesting that there is a person but that their functioning is incredibly macroscopic without any possibility of getting into the details of their own existing. Sure that might be the case half the time, but in the other half one is getting into more microscopic matters.
I am talking about it and suggesting the difference in function for more macroscopic and personal matters of the individual so how am I not regarding its importance?

Why can't I say something positive about teenagers while emphasising the meaning of my words with the negative connotation to adults? You can say steel is not flexible but you can also say it's strong. Why are you taking what is supposed to be an engaging matter and reducing it to a personal attack? Holy crap a conversation is impossible.

I'm not sure you actually said anything intelligible in this.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Brains do in fact evolve like that and that is in fact how evolution works. If one had to specialize in planning growing up and reach extremely high levels beyond any adult by the age of 15, how the hell would your statement on teenagers' ability to plan make any sense? You contradict yourself and it is an easy catch. Based on your posting patterns you are more caught up in defending yourself than being honestly mindful of the conversation taking place.
You talk about development pace but that is your rigid take because you can't concieve of different convolutions and adaptations taking place thanks to different environmental pressures. Now in terms of just developmental pace alone, yes a teenager can outdo an adult in every metric that's a fact. Whatever their apparent development is and the relevant metrics, a teenager can outdo an adult. Whatever the purpose of each gradation of convolution isn't entirely know if it isn't critical to function, right? You have to ask what the convolutions are CRITICAL to and if function is the same with a different brain, you have not grasped the nature of it.
I am confronting your perspective and paradigm here. It's yours. It's not everyone. It's not every scientist's. It's not every cognitive scientist's. Don't assume it is.
Furthermore: Doesn't matter if it's published in a Journal journals don't take responsibility for their opinions, they just set a research standard and will post all contradicting studies and assumptuous abstracts as long as they meet the criteria of the scientific method. This isn't foolproof either. If the peers are ignorant then the ones being published are too.

I'm just going to guess you're a teenager, by your claims that a teen can "outdo an adult in every metric". Which you state as fact, and which is complete bunk.

 

[Diagen]

Hi
What style do you train it for this kind of objective?
The old Japanese systems do cover the points you make. There are methods for walking along a street, turning corners, entering a room and so on. These can be intertwined with etiquette also
However, the key, underlying principle of these methods is to be relaxed & balanced, to have no planned action in mind and to be curious about one's environment. This is actually a very pleasant and free way to go about life, but feels quite different to how you describe your training
I'm a bit worried that if one is actively scanning for the assassin in every shadow then you'll end up with quite a stressful life that takes it's toll on one's mental well-being
Similarly there are a lot of ways to toughen your body. These fall into the traditional methods (eg conditioning parts of your body for strikes and other attacks, or learning how to receive attacks to minimise their impact) which again are well transmitted in say the old Japanese styles and modern methods such as weights, diet and cardio (not that the traditional systems don't have these, but probably the modern methods are better)
In terms of training for life or death: Naturally the techniques one trains will be different compared to folk training for sport. In my experience the old Japanese systems do a good job of teaching these
Hope that helps and would love to know what style you train in
Thanks

I do not train a particular style I have taken upon myself to train my mind and be ready.
"However, the key, underlying principle of these methods is to be relaxed & balanced, to have no planned action in mind and to be curious about one's environment." Center of balance is usually what I have more in mind than relaxed and balanced. Endurance is built with tension but is fatiguing; it should be this way though. One should always be ready but training leaves one weak. If one manages the tension then one can endure though.
I would say, "deep and killing" is the central tenant. It's to be ready to kill and deep in perception and motive so that one may respond however the situation requires. Being ready to avoid a blade or gun is good, but being ready to surprise the attacker right after dodging is better. It's very stressful because it's almost impossible. I do not do this all the time, but I treat my mind like my body. They both suffer the training and struggle to overcome.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Bulletproofing' joints is huge too. You have everything wrapped and strapped and the joints are good in the old as well as young.

I wish it were that easy. Joints cannot simply be wrapped to become good again. If that worked, I'd still be out running long distances, and doing heavy squats at the gym.

 

[Steve]

Why are you responding as if I did not say myself that they are more aggressive.
The fact is that when you read into it all you're getting is that they have a damned attitude. They are verbally aggressive. How the hell does this suggest dysfunction. The control are other veterans without brain damage, but how much damned action did they get in Vietnam? For all we know, because the study doesn't say so, they had a peaceful experience of war.
Nothing about the study can be used because there is just so little information and all we get is the fact that people getting a blast from something head-on tend to be more aggressive. Amazing! "Let's manage, control, and direct people's lives fast and loose with facts like these!"
Maybe certain people that have to use their frontal lobe often are angry and aggressive verbally. Do I need a study to know this? Hell lovely no. But all of you have 0 common sense or awareness of the world so I better help ya'll out: Gamers. Incredibly angry and verbally aggressive. Video games are intensive to the frontal lobe though. They are in fact intense to the entire brain depending on the game genre. Most studies do not really differentiate different genres in their study and draw conclusions on video games as a whole. The fact is that it is intensively frontal lobe though, including first-person shooters: Action Video Gaming and Cognitive Control: Playing First Person Shooter Games Is Associated with Improved Action Cascading but Not Inhibition

The only issue is interpretation of the data. You have Veterans that are more aggressive according to their family and friends. Okay! Now how did they get their head wound? They saw carnage, they are actively trying to shoot people, and an explosion went off and shrapnel went through their head most likely. Possibly a bullet went through their helment and into their skull. Okay! Why the hell do you think they have an angry damned personality? How the hell can you lobotomize yourselves and prostrate before a "study" when it just takes using your own brain to figure out what's going on?

Do any of you even read what I say or do your eyes gloss over because none of what I'm saying seems to be mentally and thoughtfully engaged with. It's like talking to chat bots. AI. Computer software. Nothing is registering.

I must not be understanding you correctly, because it sounds like you're suggesting PTSD is something that a veteran should be able to control themselves. If that's the case, I just completely disagree.

 

[Diagen]

First, calm down, everyone is not attacking you, and I did read what you said. And if you re going to make statements on a web forum and claim to be wanting a discussion, then one should not expect blind following of what they say.

But like I said, you need to reread that. And you need to actually read what I said. I am not responding like you did not say they were more aggressive. But you are making a blanket statement and saying control was veterans without brain damage and that is incorrect based on the article you posted.

ventromedial lesions consistently demonstrated Aggression/Violence Scale scores significantly higher than controls and patients with lesions in other brain areas."

They used control of other patients with other areas of bran damage as well. Basically I think you are either misunderstanding the article you posted or misrepresenting it to make a point

And a good friend of mine was a tunnel rat in Vietnam, no brain damage, but was wounded and that messed him up pretty good to. However he did not come home overly violent, he came home an alcoholic. Friend of mines brother-in-law was also in Vietnam, no brain damage, but had very violent episodes for several years whenever he felt threatened

Also "zero common sense", interesting statement...have you had to deal with aggressive bleeding heroine addict, drugged up pro wrestler, violent mental health patients and having guns pointed at you, I have...survived it too.....you claim to be wanting a discussion, but it appears what you want everyone to agree with you completely or you will start insulting those that dare question you.... Interesting

It says, "Controls AND patients with lesions in other brain areas." In the study they state that they pulled the forebrain damage veterans from the VA hospital register/ records but don't claim the controls were pulled from the hospital records. I think the abstract is just connecting to other research without citing it.

If we're trying to clarify alright that's part of the discussion. People use science to justify some assertion all the time though, like phrenology. This isn't phrenology and for all I know phrenology has some basis in reality BUT I think details are details and assertions or conclusions in the abstract are that of the scientist NOT of the study. In this study you see people rating their family and friends back from war with head trauma as more aggressive but sometimes the study isn't well done and you really need to read the methodology itself. It's VERY common that the abstract is full of JUNK and the study itself says VERY LITTLE about anything but scientists are quite presumptuous about the IMPORTANCE and EXPLANATORY POWER of everything they study. Just human nature.

I wish it were that easy. Joints cannot simply be wrapped to become good again. If that worked, I'd still be out running long distances, and doing heavy squats at the gym.

Ah but there are specific weird muscles that protect specific tendons and just one hurting is no-go on the running and squats. Seriously the Nordic curls you should do them no reason not to. You can watch a video on progressions, he talks about using the glutes to get one off a surface then using the hamstrings so there's a proper procedure to use. Can lean against a chair with something holding the feet down (towel with knotted ends under a door with the loop pulled through for instance). Good stuff man. He has something for each ligament and tendon pretty much it's like going to the mechanic.

 

[dunc]

I do not train a particular style I have taken upon myself to train my mind and be ready.
"However, the key, underlying principle of these methods is to be relaxed & balanced, to have no planned action in mind and to be curious about one's environment." Center of balance is usually what I have more in mind than relaxed and balanced. Endurance is built with tension but is fatiguing; it should be this way though. One should always be ready but training leaves one weak. If one manages the tension then one can endure though.
I would say, "deep and killing" is the central tenant. It's to be ready to kill and deep in perception and motive so that one may respond however the situation requires. Being ready to avoid a blade or gun is good, but being ready to surprise the attacker right after dodging is better. It's very stressful because it's almost impossible. I do not do this all the time, but I treat my mind like my body. They both suffer the training and struggle to overcome.

The best kind of training for what you want to achieve is the kind that helps you relax and enjoy life - this not only helps your mind and body be in the right state "if/when the moment arises", but also helps your brain develop correctly. This is one of the great secrets in the martial arts and one that unfortunately very few people understand and master (because it is counter-intuitive perhaps)
I appreciate that I'm only basing this on what you've posted here and I don't know you, but I think you'd really enjoy training in the old Japanese styles if you could find a dojo

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ah but there are specific weird muscles that protect specific tendons and just one hurting is no-go on the running and squats. Seriously the Nordic curls you should do them no reason not to. You can watch a video on progressions, he talks about using the glutes to get one off a surface then using the hamstrings so there's a proper procedure to use. Can lean against a chair with something holding the feet down (towel with knotted ends under a door with the loop pulled through for instance). Good stuff man. He has something for each ligament and tendon pretty much it's like going to the mechanic.

Nordic curls I can still do, though the knees limit how much weight I can reasonably use. My joint issues are not muscle/tendon/ligament related. It's the actual joint - it's worn out and was never much good to start with (had knee issues from age 16).

 

[Diagen]

I'd like to see some support for this claim. The truly angry people I've known were impaired in their ability to function, because of their effect on others. For many of them, it got in the way of career progression. I can think of some notable exceptions, but I suspect you're confusing a personality trait (being quick to flash anger, quick to cool - a common trait among people who tend to be task driven) with generally being angry.

I mean I get career progression being hurt but if humans don't have to like you it's pretty good. Everyone needs someone to like them so people tend not to be full of rage haha!

 

[Tez3]

I do not train a particular style I have taken upon myself to train my mind and be ready.
"However, the key, underlying principle of these methods is to be relaxed & balanced, to have no planned action in mind and to be curious about one's environment." Center of balance is usually what I have more in mind than relaxed and balanced. Endurance is built with tension but is fatiguing; it should be this way though. One should always be ready but training leaves one weak. If one manages the tension then one can endure though.
I would say, "deep and killing" is the central tenant. It's to be ready to kill and deep in perception and motive so that one may respond however the situation requires. Being ready to avoid a blade or gun is good, but being ready to surprise the attacker right after dodging is better. It's very stressful because it's almost impossible. I do not do this all the time, but I treat my mind like my body. They both suffer the training and struggle to overcome.

I was going to correct you, tenet not tenant but as I think about it you seem to have a tenant in your brain to come up with the stuff you do, and I find it worrying. I'm concerned that your thoughts are going to lead you to actions which are going to be regrettable on so many levels.

 

[Diagen]

I'm not sure you actually said anything intelligible in this.

Maybe more on-point: One can notice a loss of functioning or at least a difference of functioning so what you said didn't make sense. If one uses a part of their brain enough for some rigid study like mathematics, becoming a national competitor, what do you think happens to the cross-chatter and myelin sheething? I recall when studying this kind of stuff years ago that cross-chatter decreases with mastery, and you mention the same about skill acquisition in regards to myelin.

 

[Diagen]

I'm just going to guess you're a teenager, by your claims that a teen can "outdo an adult in every metric". Which you state as fact, and which is complete bunk.

I'm not a teenager but they can. There are completely dysfunctional adults, for one. What metric can a teenager not outdo an adult? Please inform me.

 

[Diagen]

I must not be understanding you correctly, because it sounds like you're suggesting PTSD is something that a veteran should be able to control themselves. If that's the case, I just completely disagree.

How do you read that from my words? Is it that if there were no brain basis for their behavior that responsibility for their behavior would fall solely onto their will and person? That's a societal or social matter and amounts to politics and culture. Wouldn't this suggest you want there to be some explanation for their behavior in physiology in order to legitimize a culture and politics of tolerance? Why would you need physiology for that?

 

[Diagen]

I was going to correct you, tenet not tenant but as I think about it you seem to have a tenant in your brain to come up with the stuff you do, and I find it worrying. I'm concerned that your thoughts are going to lead you to actions which are going to be regrettable on so many levels.

My bad. Tenat, right.
Regrettable to whom?

 

[Steve]

How do you read that from my words? Is it that if there were no brain basis for their behavior that responsibility for their behavior would fall solely onto their will and person? That's a societal or social matter and amounts to politics and culture. Wouldn't this suggest you want there to be some explanation for their behavior in physiology in order to legitimize a culture and politics of tolerance? Why would you need physiology for that?

To be honest, I have a very hard time understanding you. I'm trying. So, let me just say, I think PTSD is, finally, being accepted as a real issue for many veterans. It's not a lack of character or bravery, not a result of a weak mind. Whether it's called shellshock, battle fatigue, or anything else, it's a mental illness like any other illness that can be helped if treated.

I don't know if this is at all relevant to what you posted or not, or if we agree or not. So, either way, just consider this a statement of my beliefs on the topic of veterans and veteran health.

 

[Tez3]

My bad. Tenat, right.
Regrettable to whom?

Tenet.
I don't know the answer but I'm fearful all the same. Your ideas as well as your lack of understanding of what people are saying seems to indicate that you will have problems with people in situations that call for calmness and levelheadedness. Perhaps you do already? Anger on the whole isn't a good thing, few situations if any are solved by ire.

 

[Diagen]

Tenet.
I don't know the answer but I'm fearful all the same. Your ideas as well as your lack of understanding of what people are saying seems to indicate that you will have problems with people in situations that call for calmness and levelheadedness. Perhaps you do already? Anger on the whole isn't a good thing, few situations if any are solved by ire.

Alright how about this:
Anger can create relevant and beneficial physiological phenomena such as hormones, nervous system 'arousal' (alertness, power, not lust unless that's the situation), et cetera, and seems to help orient and propel one towards a goal. If the 'goal' is unclear, perhaps anger is in the way.
Now do you understand me?

 

[Tez3]

Alright how about this:
Anger can create relevant and beneficial physiological phenomena such as hormones, nervous system 'arousal' (alertness, power, not lust unless that's the situation), et cetera, and seems to help orient and propel one towards a goal. If the 'goal' is unclear, perhaps anger is in the way.
Now do you understand me?

Yes.
And no, that's incorrect in the way you mean it. Anger is not a good thing.