jobo
Grandmaster
this is exactly what you said, you didn't say it would only help build speed, or that additional training is required.
you said heavy weights WILL increase speed, period
A serious question to adept martial artists about physical fitness...
- Thread starter Zombocalypse
- Start date
this is exactly what you said, you didn't say it would only help build speed, or that additional training is required.
you said heavy weights WILL increase speed, period
Plyometric vs. isometric training influences on tendon properties and muscle output. - PubMed - NCBI
its saying isometric exercise gives better tendon stiffness (im assuming that means strength). Does anyone know if pubmed is a good source of material or is it the same as doctor google? where everything u search for will result in ultimately death.
its saying isometric exercise gives better tendon stiffness (im assuming that means strength). Does anyone know if pubmed is a good source of material or is it the same as doctor google? where everything u search for will result in ultimately death.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Everything results in death. Why? Because everything has killed someone out there, as rare as it may be.
jobo
Grandmaster
sort of, tendon stiffness transfers the strengh from the muscle to the joint, if the tendon stretches then some of that strengh is lost,if it has greater stiffness less is lost.
this topic has swooped of course to the question of if isometrics have more benefit than plyometric and the answer is maybe.
but, it depends what you mean by plylometric there are at least two accepted defintions out there and the study doesnt indecate if its one, the other or both its refering to.
isometrics were all the rage in the 50,60 and 70s. Then science said they didn't work and they were forgotten, now science seems to have rediscovered them.
all very interesting but not at all on the topic of if heavy lifting of a bench press results in a major increase in hand speed or not
Headhunter
Senior Master
I've never used weights. Way to much risk of injury and causing permanent damage. Look what happened to bruce lee he suffered with severe back pain for the rest of his life.
What I've been lately to build my strength up for Jiu Jitsu is simply press ups but slow ones where I hold myself down for a few seconds before pushing myself back up and do about 10-15 at a time. It's only been about 2 weeks and already I feel stronger both just on the arms and on the mat.
What I've been lately to build my strength up for Jiu Jitsu is simply press ups but slow ones where I hold myself down for a few seconds before pushing myself back up and do about 10-15 at a time. It's only been about 2 weeks and already I feel stronger both just on the arms and on the mat.
OP
OP
Zombocalypse
Blue Belt
Believe me when I tell you that lifting weights (done properly) is infinitely safer than 90% of physical sports out there. Plus, lifting weights actually builds an injury-resistant body.
Headhunter
Senior Master
Well I've done well enough without them all my life so I'll be fine
The "done properly" part is what's problematic. Most folks won't have a trainer handy to check their form on every exercise and stop them from exposing joints badly, etc.
OP
OP
Zombocalypse
Blue Belt
Well, you have a point. I guess I am an exception to the rule because I have actual experience and solid knowledge on safe weight training.
But I do believe that it's not really that hard to figure out how to safely lift weights. Free information is all over the place. I'm sure I can pull up a Mark Rippetoe training video involving how to squat, deadlift, or bench properly.
I also would like to point out that there is a risk to everything we do. Anything that's worth achieving has a risk involved. Football and boxing are dangerous sports on their own right. There's a lot of injuries that can happen. I can recall a youtube footage of a football player celebrating a touchdown by jumping all over the place and ended up damaging his knee.
The issue isn't finding a source, it's evaluating your own form. Most people won't be capable of doing it properly. What stands out to an experienced and qualified trainer as a mistake might not look any different from good form when viewed by a novice.
I read Zombocalypse's original post and he is correct. Most people are bumper car drivers, not ralley or street racers -- catch my drift? Most sports are full of unmotivated or very few motivated people. It's like a hobby to them, no matter what they say. Like most things, it makes demands on the person not the other way around; and who the hell wants to listen to all those demands? Martial Artists have to be great athletes, and I'll add that they have to be great mental and sensory athletes as well. Mental and sensory exercises are a must, but people aren't paying that stuff too much attention or doing their own private thing. People are pretty lacking overall when you see the potential.
that ningzi video is A+. If they trained it more their waist would be killer, most big eastern kung fu movements create insane athleticism and strenght if you add weight, vigor, and repetition. Seriously what a set of movements.
The videos are gone but my thoughts exactly. Power lifters often tear something against arm wrestlers. Spiral bone breaks are a thing haha. Besides that much power loss is through loss of torque. I believe Jim Wendler or someone talked about that but he's a power lifter. Training twist is BIG. As a weight lifter taking a dumbbell and just twisting the weight in the hand and moving side to side and up and down with the load transfering up through the arm and scapula is big, that's wrist and forearm and upper arm and shoulder and traps and serratus and et cetera just keep time under tension and go to mental and physical failure for multiple sets. So it would be forearm parallel to ground but you twist and bend with the wrist, rotate the arm outward and inward, move the weight away from body and near it.
Besides that you got cable woodchoppers which is like chopping a tree down but there's a cable machine you're pulling from for horizontal resistance. Then of course the shovel lifts and asymmetrical deadlifts. There's the cossack squat which is BW but you can use DBs as well. Doing a 1 hand plank with hand under shoulder is asymmetrical and all asymmetrical exercises develop twist strength and builds up one's durability.
Throwing something is definitely very important. Twist, stretch-shortening, explosiveness.
There's a lot to physical prowess.
frank raud
Master of Arts
So, what makes it better than a Bulgarian bag, or doing halos with a kettlebell?Seriously though that Ningzi might be the best exercise I can imagine. Wow.
Well the weight is two grip and spread in the center, but with weight at the ends the leverage is much more difficult, so it depends on the weight used. From what I've seen and done though it looks like with slight variations it would be incredibly complete movements to exercise with. By opening up the torso and making the arms more vertical at the end-of-movement rather than horizontal you complete the set. It's a training stimulus you can't get normally for the waist and spine.
Think about holding the DBZ fusion pose with that weight in your hands. Now recognize that you're twisting and stopping a weight moving horizontally from a posture meant to stop a weight from moving down vertically. Can't get that normally.
This was the original videos.
2 hand twisting force is commonly used in wrestling.
https://i.postimg.cc/Kj2qxMJD/Gon-twist.gif
https://i.postimg.cc/4dbvvFQp/my-Gon-twist.gif
Last edited:
isshinryuronin
Senior Master
I checked out the video on Ningzi and agree it's a great exercise. As Kung Fu Wang said, twisting strength is not often practiced. Yet, twisting movements are extensively used when you have hold of the opponent's torso or arm.
For the torso I use the pulley at the gym with the grip adjusted at waist height, my arms extended to one side (my body facing the machine) and twist my body (using a two handed grip like the classic pistol triangle position) 180 degrees away from the machine. I also do this with the grips set to the top of the machine and twist down to my thigh. The Okinawan kata seiunchin (and possibly naihanchi, depending on interpretation of application) have torso twisting based techniques to move the opponent. Twisting strength in your body aids in many take-downs, especially when leg position (leverage) is not ideal.
Traditional Okinawan karate exercise (hojo undoo) includes holding what is essentially a sledge hammer with one arm extended to the front and the hammer perpendicular to the arm. The arm is rotated 180 degrees so the head of the hammer travels in an arc from side to side. This builds strength in the forearm for twisting the opponent's wrist to break his balance and/or position him for an elbow break or lock (hikite/tuite.)
As I get older (70 next week) I'm concentrating on exercises that more directly enhance my karate.
For the torso I use the pulley at the gym with the grip adjusted at waist height, my arms extended to one side (my body facing the machine) and twist my body (using a two handed grip like the classic pistol triangle position) 180 degrees away from the machine. I also do this with the grips set to the top of the machine and twist down to my thigh. The Okinawan kata seiunchin (and possibly naihanchi, depending on interpretation of application) have torso twisting based techniques to move the opponent. Twisting strength in your body aids in many take-downs, especially when leg position (leverage) is not ideal.
Traditional Okinawan karate exercise (hojo undoo) includes holding what is essentially a sledge hammer with one arm extended to the front and the hammer perpendicular to the arm. The arm is rotated 180 degrees so the head of the hammer travels in an arc from side to side. This builds strength in the forearm for twisting the opponent's wrist to break his balance and/or position him for an elbow break or lock (hikite/tuite.)
As I get older (70 next week) I'm concentrating on exercises that more directly enhance my karate.
I like this pulley drill. But the gym pulley rope is not long enough. I have to build my own pulley.
That is great keep it up.
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