lack of serious martial artists

[Diagen]

The egoic arrogance of old men can be insane. You are trying to defend your social status, pride and position on an online forum and rejecting the "least costs, most benefit" information I share with the most credibility: kneesovertoesguy; ALONG with everything else I'm saying. I can't say a single damn thing without all of you demanding some groveling in order to establish my position in this god forsaken forum as below all of you. It's CHIMP INSTINCT. Ridiculous.
If somesuch is agreeable then just say so instead of attacking my character with your crap. I'm trying to get a discussion going not chum it by the watercooler.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You can't assume that brain structure is responsible though, which none of you seem to register is the central point of my argument. Yes I understand and have agreed that the brains of teenagers are still developing but if external factors demanded a more adult brain they would adapt. If teenagers had to live on their own after they reached puberty you would see different brain structures and different social structures preparing them and adapting them to an adult life before they reach 12 or so, and teenagers would be less affected by peer pressure and more adult in every way.

You can't arbitrarily decide that circumstance has no part in the physiology of their brain. I don't care how many others do it, you can't do that if you want to have insight and true knowledge. In this sense you've bent to the pressure of "common knowledge" haha! Ironic.

I'm guessing you didn't read through that article and the cited research within, since they do reference causes and (I believe, if the study I'm thinking of was referenced) adaptability. Again, all of it has been studied and proven.

 

[Tez3]

I am talking about what you're talking about and trying to interpret the data, what's the issue?
You say nothing I say is relevant but it is. You:

And my first line:

You talk about signal to noise ratio but what is determined to be noise and what is determined to be signal? Adults can become so one-track that they lose all perspective, is this superior?
How am I being irrelevant? Are we having a discussion or sharing literature? There is discussion here about why teenagers quit early and I am trying to develop perspective.
Big life decisions are indeed about wisdom and the big picture, and how it connects to what one really wants and how one makes sense of things including the meaning of life. How is that irrelevant? It is part of the discussion because I've made it part of it. Of course teenagers want something meaningful.

How do you think inconsistency in signal responses or feedback affects thinking and perspective? Along with the increase cross-talk, the reduced myelin suggests what in terms of the way it shapes a person? The brain of a teenager experiences less consistent or irrelevant feedback on everything it does, there is constant cross-chatter and signals move exposed and slower. Perhaps they can be more self-aware of how others see their thoughts or use creative reasoning because of this? What do you think? Perhaps they are more associative in their reasoning and doing? Perhaps they are more individualistic due to the lack of consistent 'trigger' and sense of disassociation or non-linearity in their own thinking?

With this in mind, what do you think would attract and motivate them? It seems like a good place to start.

Please cite your sources as well as your professional qualifications.

Then please stop with the quasi scientific claptrap then write good, plain English. Read George Orwell's 6 rules for writing from his essay 'Politics and the English Language"

Looking at the example of the teenager who offered money to get their black belt it has nothing to do with his teenage brain and all to do with the fact his parents were making him do martial arts, something he found abhorrent and was obviously not motivated to train at all, after all why would he, I certainly wouldn't but then my parents didn't force me into activities I wasn't suited to or weren't interested in. They did however encourage me to do the things I loved doing.

In my country we have hundreds of thousands of teens actively and diligently working (and enjoying) activities ranging from sports, dance, horse riding, Cheer (now officially recognised by the IOC) to uniformed groups.This is because of inspiring adults taking the time to engage with young people and seeing the possibilities. What these adults don't do is whinge about young people.

 

[Tez3]

Double post

 

[Tez3]

Maybe you speak more than you mean so you think everyone else is the same.
More to the point: Nice of everyone to refuse engagement with anything I say hence no god damned discussion. Just have the damned conversation holy F

I mean everything I say.
We cannot engage with someone who is writing in such a manner as to make his meaning unintelligible.

The egoic arrogance of old men can be insane. You are trying to defend your social status, pride and position on an online forum and rejecting the "least costs, most benefit" information I share with the most credibility: kneesovertoesguy; ALONG with everything else I'm saying. I can't say a single damn thing without all of you demanding some groveling in order to establish my position in this god forsaken forum as below all of you. It's CHIMP INSTINCT. Ridiculous.
If somesuch is agreeable then just say so instead of attacking my character with your crap. I'm trying to get a discussion going not chum it by the watercooler.

Case in point, this doesn't make sense at all. Egoic means referring to the ego not an inflated who though I think yours is on hyperdrive at the moment, I'm not sure what social status and position you think we have, you don't know us. Pride? Nope I don't see any of that. What I do see is someone who is getting frustrated because others aren't accepting that he knows better than anyone here.

Grovelling is spelt this way, 'somesuch'?

 

[Xue Sheng]

dis·cus·sion
/dəˈskəSH(ə)n/
The action or process of talking about something in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas

a conversation or debate about a certain topic.plural noun:

a detailed treatment of a particular topic in speech or writing.

ar·gu·ment
/ˈärɡyəmənt/

1.an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one."

2.a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.

 

[Steve]

That's not gibberish. Talking online would be replaced with intense training if one were most serious about it.
Most people's training doesn't matter for life and death because their training doesn't prepare them for it. Training isn't a life or death scenario usually but that doesn't mean one can't imagine it so, what's your point?
You don't know the potential of martial arts or training but it seems like you assume you do.

If you're saying most people don't train for life or death situations, I think most people here have said similar in the past. Speaking just for myself, I don't think that's the big issue. The issue I see is that you believe you do train for life or death. I'm genuinely interested in hearing more about this. I am very curious how you believe you do that.

 

[Diagen]

I mean everything I say.
We cannot engage with someone who is writing in such a manner as to make his meaning unintelligible.


Case in point, this doesn't make sense at all. Egoic means referring to the ego not an inflated who though I think yours is on hyperdrive at the moment, I'm not sure what social status and position you think we have, you don't know us. Pride? Nope I don't see any of that. What I do see is someone who is getting frustrated because others aren't accepting that he knows better than anyone here.

Grovelling is spelt this way, 'somesuch'?

Every discussion of martial arts or any topic is borderline rehearsed. How is there any engagement with what is said? Are you serious? It's the same tropes repeated over and over again, or braindead copy pasting that has no relevance to the central point of what is being talked about. There is about nil intellectual ENGAGEMENT. ENGAGEMENT IS THE WORD. Just random copy pasting and regurgitations that missed what I was actually saying and HOW IT RELATES TO THE TOPIC OF LACK OF SERIOUS MARTIAL ARTISTS.

Look at this:

I'm guessing you didn't read through that article and the cited research within, since they do reference causes and (I believe, if the study I'm thinking of was referenced) adaptability. Again, all of it has been studied and proven.

They REFERENCE Adaptability and Causes.
This means that the words were used and you, Monkey Turned Wolf, did not care to understand what the hell the context in the literature was. What a lazy response. They talk about the functional role of some brain morphology and you think that connects to what is being discussed but it doesn't.

What an unserious response with all the dressings of one. haha! Not one person here appears to be serious about brain morphology nor martial arts nor guiding others!

The planning required in martial arts is not difficult in the least if we're talking a controlled environment like a dojo where you just obey the damn instructor and show up each day or week. Why does anyone need to plan for that? There is no risk involved. Injury is not death. Serious injury is not likely at all. Serious injury does not prevent one from working, studying, thinking, interacting with others. The ones most at risk are those that use their body to work. The ones that don't use their brain for subsistence basically are at risk of poor decision-making. At the same time I see very little knowledge of injury prevention and receptivity to training that may reduce injury on this site. Kneesovertoesguy, bulletproof your knees, fix your joint pain, develop mobility and strength in stretch; NOPE! Not much interest.
This suggests an irony: People here ARE NOT SERIOUS about MA, and NOT SERIOUS about this topic. They talk about being guides and pin shortcomings on students or the lack of seriousness but THEY are the problem. You can put me in the same lot as the rest of you if you want!

All that I am asking is to connect MARTIAL ARTS to what is important for the development of the person. How could you have recognized this you may wonder? You could have seen the thread title then read me asking and positing how martial arts is important to teenagers and how current dojos or gyms DON'T motivate teenagers or ANYONE AT ANY AGE over and over again.

The topic should be about WHAT MAKES SOMEONE SERIOUS ABOUT MARTIAL ARTISTS and whether any of you are even serious about MA.

The developmental stage can inflect what is important to one. That's why I engaged with that topic when it was brought up. But the reason teenagers or anyone drops martial arts isn't brain morphology. Brain morphology isn't the big ticket that'll explain how or why people are interested in martial arts or why they show up then just leave.

One group of MA wants to draw blood, street fight, et cetera. Another group just wants to learn self-defense and how to protect people. Another wants to fight in matches and tournaments.
You only have a PASSION for MA if you LIKE TO FIGHT though. If you have a passion for MA it must be because you love fighting and conquering your enemies. There is no exception. It is brutal, barbaric and primitive. No one believes otherwise. If you do MA for another reason you just won't become very good, and you really have no passion for it. Maybe protecting others drives you to a degree but those with passion always find great thrill in fighting. Soldiers have limited use for MA and will not invest everything into it. Their seriousness or passion is outside the scope of MA, it is merely a part of their toolkit.

If MA is just something you use and developed as part of your life or part of your true passion (soldier) you are not passionate about MA it is just a hobby or tool to you.
People like Mike Tyson get quite a thrill out of fighting. He loves it. He's passionate for destroying his enemy. For conquering. For testing his strength against another. You might say otherwise but you'd be wrong. You'd be wrong about those passionate about MA: Every single one wants to fight, test their strength, test their meddle, defeat their opponent, be the victor, gain the spoil. Or they're hobbyists.

 

[Diagen]

If you're saying most people don't train for life or death situations, I think most people here have said similar in the past. Speaking just for myself, I don't think that's the big issue. The issue I see is that you believe you do train for life or death. I'm genuinely interested in hearing more about this. I am very curious how you believe you do that.

I don't think my training is adequate but I'm willing to discuss how one properly does so and PART of my method is to push against everyone's presumptions about MA, physical fitness, survival, and on relevant tangents.

Easy point I can make: What do you all do for injury prevention and general athleticism? I hear talk about running from fights but I don't see any talk on how one develops that athleticism. You can't train if you're injured. I haven't found anyone that took up the kneesovertoesguy material despite a lot of views. I've seen resistance to such training though haha!

There's a general lack of self-consistency and seriousness, or the consistency of seriousness, in all the martial artists here which I am trying to confront so it can be remedied which should culminate in a consensus on what constitutes proper MA training and a proper martial artist.

 

[Steve]

Every discussion of martial arts or any topic is borderline rehearsed. How is there any engagement with what is said? Are you serious? It's the same tropes repeated over and over again, or braindead copy pasting that has no relevance to the central point of what is being talked about. There is about nil intellectual ENGAGEMENT. ENGAGEMENT IS THE WORD. Just random copy pasting and regurgitations that missed what I was actually saying and HOW IT RELATES TO THE TOPIC OF LACK OF SERIOUS MARTIAL ARTISTS.

I'll just paste a quote from Tony Robbins. He said, "Engaging people is about meeting their needs, not yours." So, maybe you aren't trying hard enough?

 

[Diagen]

I'll just paste a quote from Tony Robbins. He said, "Engaging people is about meeting their needs, not yours." So, maybe you aren't trying hard enough?

Man I am fighting to be heard here.

 

[Steve]

I don't think my training is adequate but I'm willing to discuss how one properly does so and PART of my method is to push against everyone's presumptions about MA, physical fitness, survival, and on relevant tangents.

Easy point I can make: What do you all do for injury prevention and general athleticism? I hear talk about running from fights but I don't see any talk on how one develops that athleticism. You can't train if you're injured. I haven't found anyone that took up the kneesovertoesguy material despite a lot of views. I've seen resistance to such training though haha!

There's a general lack of self-consistency and seriousness, or the consistency of seriousness, in all the martial artists here which I am trying to confront so it can be remedied which should culminate in a consensus on what constitutes proper MA training and a proper martial artist.

Well, I'm interested to hear what you do to mitigate some of these shortcomings in your own training.

 

[Diagen]

Well, I'm interested to hear what you do to mitigate some of these shortcomings in your own training.

The exercises in kneesovertoesguy 7 mobility checklist are pretty damn good. I do them.

 

[Steve]

The exercises in kneesovertoesguy 7 mobility checklist are pretty damn good. I do them.

Okay, sorry. Not being super clear. I'm really interested in how you train for life or death and where you believe other people fall short.

 

[Diagen]

Okay, sorry. Not being super clear. I'm really interested in how you train for life or death and where you believe other people fall short.

I have spent much time preparing before walking around every corner, checking every blind spot, looking for blindspots, keeping aware of surroundings and not just looking around (ears, mental sense, exerting sensitivity), forcefully adapting my eyes to darkness when walking from a bright place to a dark one or keeping my eyes from going night blind when looking at bright lights at night or in a dark space, looking into shadows and hard to see places when going about and looking for hiding spots, keeping in tension the thought that someone I'm talking to might attack or charge, visualizing various life or death scenarios some of them complicated and trying to figure out the timing and ignorant "first drafts" of every move and energy level I responded with (resulting in adrenaline, cortisol, half contracted moves in body, that sort of thing), I am hard on myself, and I learn everything I can.
I don't think people do the mental and sensory side of things enough. I don't think people understand social dynamics too well when aggression is involved. I don't think athleticism and physical power is well studied by martial artists generally, nor do they train enough. I don't think toughening techniques are well developed or trained generally. I don't think weathering is considered - hot, cold, dry, wet. I don't think people know how to recover from fights or spars too well and that's no good haha, certain training lends itself to such but no one would believe me.
I don't think people that throw away what's good for them know jack **** about life or death. It's a far off concept to them. There is no necessity driving their martial arts training or they would be receptive.

I got plenty of knowledge it just takes a couple weeks to see the benefit of this or that method. One is for recovery and general development: high #s of Burnout sets. This is a considerably neglected training method given it's braindead simple. It builds passive muscle tone (muscle is defense), real toughness, mind-body, energy, endurance, and strength. Makes oak. Somethings are so braindead and rare I think cowardice and weakness rules the human soul. The thing about doing more and more burnout sets is that after you hit a strength bottom your strength starts to return until you have near infinite endurance. Why does no one know this haha? I don't have to be crazy to do it it just is way too easy it makes no sense.
The reason I haven't done anything is because I want to take a fat dump on everyone when I go from 0 to Hero using my methods. Does this place have training logs?

 

[Steve]

I have spent much time preparing before walking around every corner, checking every blind spot, looking for blindspots, keeping aware of surroundings and not just looking around (ears, mental sense, exerting sensitivity), forcefully adapting my eyes to darkness when walking from a bright place to a dark one or keeping my eyes from going night blind when looking at bright lights at night or in a dark space, looking into shadows and hard to see places when going about and looking for hiding spots, keeping in tension the thought that someone I'm talking to might attack or charge, visualizing various life or death scenarios some of them complicated and trying to figure out the timing and ignorant "first drafts" of every move and energy level I responded with (resulting in adrenaline, cortisol, half contracted moves in body, that sort of thing), I am hard on myself, and I learn everything I can.
I don't think people do the mental and sensory side of things enough. I don't think people understand social dynamics too well when aggression is involved. I don't think athleticism and physical power is well studied by martial artists generally, nor do they train enough. I don't think toughening techniques are well developed or trained generally. I don't think weathering is considered - hot, cold, dry, wet. I don't think people know how to recover from fights or spars too well and that's no good haha, certain training lends itself to such but no one would believe me.
I don't think people that throw away that's good for them know jack **** about life or death. It's a far off concept to them. There is no necessity driving their martial arts training or they would be receptive.
I got plenty of knowledge it just takes a couple weeks to see the benefit of this or that method. One is for recovery and general development: Burnout sets. This is a considerably neglected training method given it's braindead simple. It builds passive muscle tone (muscle is defense), real toughness, mind-body, energy, endurance, and strength. Makes oak. Somethings are so braindead and rare I think cowardice and weakness rules the human soul.
The reason I haven't done anything is because I want to take a fat dump on everyone when I go from 0 to Hero using my methods. Does this place have training logs?

Okay, but how do you know whether any of those things you've done are helpful? I still don't understand. What if all of those things you're doing just make you feel like you're more safe, but don't actually help? How do you know otherwise?

I'll be very honest. About half of what you're posting seems pretty crazy to me, but about half are things many people here have said before.

Also, I think you're underestimating the amount that athleticism and physical power has been discussed. Some folks disregard it, but most don't. While important, those are traits that are there whether you train in an MA or not, and can be developed outside of MA. So, as a 260 lbs BJJ black belt said, you don't train BJJ to show everyone how strong you already are. You're there to learn technique.

Last thing, since you mention it, and to be honest, I'm almost afraid to ask. What do you know about life or death? How do I know you're not a self defense snake oil salesman like a few others around here?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

They REFERENCE Adaptability and Causes.
This means that the words were used and you, Monkey Turned Wolf, did not care to understand what the hell the context in the literature was. What a lazy response. They talk about the functional role of some brain morphology and you think that connects to what is being discussed but it doesn't.

If you read my point of posting it, it was that it had a lot of things that they reference, with the sources to look into it further. I'll ask again: Did you do that? Did you read both the article, and the articles they reference?

I'm going to assume no, since if you had to fully digest it all would probably take a week or longer. Regarding being too lazy to understand the context of it-again, both my undergraduate and post-graduate degrees, along with most of my professional life, were in this exact science. I have studied all of these. There's no point in having a discussion with someone who clearly lacks the foundational knowledge, so I will wait until you gain that knowledge before replying further.

 

[Diagen]

Okay, but how do you know whether any of those things you've done are helpful? I still don't understand. What if all of those things you're doing just make you feel like you're more safe, but don't actually help? How do you know otherwise?

I'll be very honest. About half of what you're posting seems pretty crazy to me, but about half are things many people here have said before.

Also, I think you're underestimating the amount that athleticism and physical power has been discussed. Some folks disregard it, but most don't. While important, those are traits that are there whether you train in an MA or not, and can be developed outside of MA. So, as a 260 lbs BJJ black belt said, you don't train BJJ to show everyone how strong you already are. You're there to learn technique.

Last thing, since you mention it, and to be honest, I'm almost afraid to ask. What do you know about life or death? How do I know you're not a self defense snake oil salesman like a few others around here?

I don't think I'm safe man that's part of it haha! If you feel safe you're doing it wrong.

Don't trust everything I say, good rigorous and constant testing is what it's all about. For instance: dry brushing for skin toughness (and health). Sure you could scrub your body with a cactus bristle brush every day for 30 minutes for a year but that doesn't mean it'll help. If you upgrade to something a bit stiffer when you're ready though, you know that there's incremental progression and you have TOUGHER skin, maybe not tough enough to be useful though. That one is the least likely to be done and least likely to reach a high level since people don't want to do it. It's great for circulation and skin health of course it's not like you're scratching yourself. The skin toughens while being healthy it just takes time.
Much of this is just logical and about incremental progression so no claim is being made that it's a complete formula for success. The point is that you cannot succeed relying on convention and an individual instructor at some dojo or gym. You must develop your own mental and rational faculties to discern, and your own mental and emotional strength to succeed. And physical strength of course.

If something objectively improves your abilities then you know it objectively improves your abilities nothing more. MA is complicated we have to look out for knowledge, techniques, and ways of improving.

 

[Diagen]

If you read my point of posting it, it was that it had a lot of things that they reference, with the sources to look into it further. I'll ask again: Did you do that? Did you read both the article, and the articles they reference?

I'm going to assume no, since if you had to fully digest it all would probably take a week or longer. Regarding being too lazy to understand the context of it-again, both my undergraduate and post-graduate degrees, along with most of my professional life, were in this exact science. I have studied all of these. There's no point in having a discussion with someone who clearly lacks the foundational knowledge, so I will wait until you gain that knowledge before replying further.

But the topic isn't about your field of study; if you had comprehension of how it connects to the topic; and topics I've brought up to try and further discussion of the topic; you would have made those connections and furthered the discussion but you couldn't do that could you? So we're making it about your field of study instead of trying to figure out how this helps us answer the original issue which is lack of seriousness and commitment to martial arts and the general progression of martial artists. I would just love that sort of god damn reply but it's impossible for you to pull yourself out of your ****.

 

[Diagen]

Frontal lobe injuries, violence, and aggression: a report of the Vietnam Head Injury Study - PubMed

Knowledge stored in the human prefrontal cortex may exert control over more primitive behavioral reactions to environmental provocation. Therefore, following frontal lobe lesions, patients are more likely to use physical intimidation or verbal threats in potential or actual confrontational...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here is the standard of behavioral study. I mean it's just soulless decomposition without constructive and critical thinking. They have 279 Vietnam veterans with frontal lobe injuries, and their control is 57 veterans without frontal lobe damage.
Of course the veterans with frontal lobe damage are angry. If you broke your collar bone you would want to punch or swat anyone that touched it. If someone MAKES YOU USE what has been wounded they get angry; if you workout and are sore as hell you will get angry when someone wants you to do something when you just want to take it easy.
What do you think happens to a fighter? Their whole body and head gets beat up. Now what do they do? They're angry.

Veterans: You damage their head and they will be verbally aggressive. You hit a part of their brain responsible for language like the parietal lobe and maybe they become grammar nazis or have a special hatred for a certain genre of fiction. Maybe saying things a certain way, a certain way of constructing sentences or whatever inspires hatred and anger. You hit a part of their brain responsible for sight and maybe they stare you down, maybe they are aggressive in their visualization of things and what they try to percieve in their environment (looking in shadows, looking at bright things to adjust the eyes). Maybe the sight of something disrupts their visual field so much so they go and break it, tear it down.
What happens with veterans in general? They get angry. Injury or not they're aggressive so how the hell does this study even make sense? Something viscerally bothers them so they get angry. If you had a domestic abuse victim what kind of response would they give after a frontal lobe injury? Fear? Deference? Haha!

Just a bunch of loose data nothing more. Brain is alive and used like a muscle. Every person in every field thinks their field is the best and is incredibly well developed. Everyone that thinks they're well developed is a fool, and everyone ties their ego to their field of study so their field of study must be well developed, right?

If you know people you know the con! Use your brain, or injury, atrophy and ignorance settles in and one avoids it. Use your body, or injury, atrophy and ignorance settles in and you avoid it.