Kata

[twendkata71]

Are you affiliated with the Seishinkai international?
Kuniba Hanshi was a great teacher. I only wish I had the opportunity to meet and train with him.
What have you found in the differences between the Shito ryu version and the Goju ryu version of Suparempei?

I am Motobu ha Shito ryu, but am currently training in a Goju dojo to understand the differences in how they do Goju kata and how Shito ryu does them.

 

[cstanley]

Are you affiliated with the Seishinkai international?
Kuniba Hanshi was a great teacher. I only wish I had the opportunity to meet and train with him.
What have you found in the differences between the Shito ryu version and the Goju ryu version of Suparempei?

I started karate in Seishin Kai when I was in junior high under one of Kuniba's senior students, Richard Baillargeon. Then, he formed NKJU and it was still Motobu ha under Kuniba as advisor. I stayed in the organization a few years, left for college, then moved around some teaching and training wherever I went. Some of my rank is from Hayashi's org., but I'm still Motobu ha Shito ryu. I am not in SSK now, just teaching on my own. But, I will probably join one of the major Shito groups this year because I feel the need to get back in the larger tradition. I hate all the organizational squabbling that goes on in a lot of the groups.

Suparimpei pattern and content is pretty much the same. There are some different hand placements in Goju that I have not had explained to me, and I don't see any Shito ryu rising and sinking like I see the Goju guys do. Goju's mawashi uke is different, too. I haven't been doing that kata very long, so I'm not a good one to ask.

 

[twendkata71]

I was curious. I learned the Hayashi Ha version, then later I learned the version taught by the Shito kai, very different. I have watched Hiagonna Morio Perform the Goju ryu version, it only seemed to be slightly different from the first version that I learn.
I would love to get a more in depth training in Goju ryu. We had a Goju ryu stylist that came to our dojo for a while, I think that he was 3rd dan, he would show me different aspects when I asked. But back then I was concerned with kumite and winning tournaments. My loss. He is no longer at my sensei's dojo, He probably moved on and started his own dojo.

 

[jks9199]

Methinks I best be quiet, after reading some of your posts it seems "I" have been wrong of late, my daughters BLAST thru their Kata like their heads are on fire and their butts are catching, I tell em to slow it down and "hold" each move a second the way I've seen Kata preformed at Tournaments.

They are currently doing Kenpo Kata Little Dragons and Little Tigers, they are Yellow Belts, no white stripe anymore.

Skennen Peace.

I'm glad your daughters are doing well.

There are many ways to approach kata training -- but I'm going to address two primary ones briefly. You can train & practice for demonstration, which would include tournament competition, and you can train them as fighting skills. Each has a different approach; when you training for demonstration, you're going to focus on showing how well you can do it. The pace will be altered for drama & clarity. When you train them for fighting -- the flow will be different, and you'll look at different aspects. You'll also have to take sequences and pieces out of the kata, and find and understand the applications. For kids -- especially younger kids -- I tend to focus on demonstration aspects, not the combative. (As an aside -- you can also do them as a fitness exercise, by pushing the pace & number of repitions. I've got one form that if I can blast it fast and hard 5 times... I'm exhausted!)

 

[cstanley]

There is only one way to do kata, and that is to try and do justice to the kata and let it come to life through you. If you are doing it as showmanship, that is ego and you will never get to where the kata is supposed to take you. Kata should not be viewed as a vehicle for you to express your personality; if you train hard for years, your spirit will show through the kata. But, if you do it in a "look at me" fashion, you are missing the point. That is why I believe that tournament kata is a distraction and only keeps you from progressing to deeper levels. As long as you are doing it for someone else to judge or be impressed by you aren't getting inside the kata.
Kata does not teach you how to fight. You have to understand the bunkai in order to know how the kata should be done, but kata should not be focused on as "fighting techniques." You can't "figure" kata out that way. Kata is kata; a pretty unique and complex thing. You just do it for years and things start to make sense and become clear.
Also, doing them fast for "conditioning" doesn't improve the kata. They should be done at a proper pace with lots of repetition. Your timing and rhythm will change over the years as you understand the kata and it becomes more a part of you. Speed for speed sake is never helpful..."the sword that moves fast cuts nothing." Take up jogging for cross training and don't mess up your kata with trying to make it aerobics. Or, take up Tae Bo.

 

[twendkata71]

Great post.

 

[Kwiter]

Nia:wen Thanks for the tips

 

[kingkong89]

remember when the master practiced kata in old japan they may have only had 3 or four kats, one beggenr,one intermidiate, one advace, and maybe one kata only masters where able to learn

 

[twendkata71]

Uh, when you say "old Japan", which old Japan are you refering to? Karate was introduced to Japan in the early 20's. And very few Masters only learned 4 kata. Motobu Choki being the one that comes to mind. Now if you mean Old Okinawa, that would perhaps be more appropriate. I can see a style being based on 4 or 5 kata a 100 years ago, but it wouldn't have the depth that karate has today. I guess it would be up to the descretion of the sensei. Perhaps Sakagawa or Matsumura, but then they taught about 10 kata in their total system, not all to the same students, in many cases. Many of the masters picked up kata from other masters to add to their knowledge, thus we have the modern styles of karate of today.