How Many Kata am I or are You Doing?

[Brandon Fisher]

yes and so does shobayashi, but some other systems have less.

Just out of curiousity how many does Shobayashi have. I know most Shorin ryu systems have between 11 and 18 empty hand.

 

[searcher]

Just out of curiousity how many does Shobayashi have. I know most Shorin ryu systems have between 11 and 18 empty hand.

I believe that Shobayashi has 24-26 kata. I am about 95% sure.

 

[Flying Crane]

I have a basic form for Tibetan White Crane, but it has 6 different variations to it, and I know five, and practice 4 regularly. I guess I could count this anywhere from 1 to 5 forms.

Another of the Crane forms is very very long, so in the 1950s it was broken into two separate forms. I practice them separately, as well as together as one long form. I have also developed my own variation of the first half, for purposes of my own, and practice that on top of the original version. So I could count this as one, two, three, or even four forms.

I've got a Lohan form that my sifu modified for his own reasons. He has taught it to me both ways, the traditional, and his version.

I've got a tai chi sword form that also has the original version, and my sifu's personal modifications.

How I count them generally depends on what kind of bragging rights I want

. I could say I've got 13 forms right here, or I could just call it four.

 

[truth_seeker87]

I only practise 12 open handed Kata:

Naihanchi 1-3
Tomari Seisan
Pinan 1-5
Passai
Kusanku
Neiseishi

After the basic versions of the kata are learned, worked hard and refined, advanced versions of these Kata are practised. Also breaking down each Kata is vital to the practise. To borrow from Guiding Priinciple #8 from my art:

"In the past a single kata was practised for three years. A long time ago a praticular master analyzed a kata for over ten years. Do not think you have mastered a Kata and become proud of your success. Pride will lead to hurt your achievement in both virtue and technique, hence pride can be like a poison to the world."

So taking from that I do not think it very beneficial to memorize many kata, rather build the skills and work the core principles a Kata teaches.

Kobudo in alot of way assist your empty handed kata and have a lot of empty handed application. Also the practise of these weapons helps develop your body in ways that benefit the techniques one practises.

The Kobudo that I know right now:
Bo: Bo Kihon
Sai: Kunishi no Sai
Tanbo: Tanbo Kihon
Chikizun Bo: Chizikun Bo no Kata

There are alot more to learn but I want to go at a slow and steady pace with learning a Kata. No need to rush if it takes a life time to master.

 

[JWLuiza]

I have a basic form for Tibetan White Crane, but it has 6 different variations to it, and I know five, and practice 4 regularly. I guess I could count this anywhere from 1 to 5 forms.

Another of the Crane forms is very very long, so in the 1950s it was broken into two separate forms. I practice them separately, as well as together as one long form. I have also developed my own variation of the first half, for purposes of my own, and practice that on top of the original version. So I could count this as one, two, three, or even four forms.

I've got a Lohan form that my sifu modified for his own reasons. He has taught it to me both ways, the traditional, and his version.

I've got a tai chi sword form that also has the original version, and my sifu's personal modifications.

How I count them generally depends on what kind of bragging rights I want

. I could say I've got 13 forms right here, or I could just call it four.

Thanks for bringing it back to the OPs question

I get more and more interested in Kung Fu the more I learn about Tang Soo Do and the origins of Karate.

I'm seeking a Yang 88 move teacher.

 

[chinto]

I believe that Shobayashi has 24-26 kata. I am about 95% sure.

we have 22 open hand in the system and 4 other empty hand kata that most people learn as well before shodan ho.. plus at least the 9 bo kata and some of the 4 sai kata and 3 tunfa, 3 kama,2 eku,2 tekko, 2 nunchuku that I can think of off hand, and a few others I dont know of I am sure. I dont know all the weapons kata, but I do know that some of them are kinda tought to people who seem to enjoy them and fit them .. I will eventualy learn them all I am sure.
of the kobudo/kobujitsu kata I know 5 pretty well and one sorta..
and know some other weapons katas.. but any way not as well as I would like.

 

[chinto]

I have a basic form for Tibetan White Crane, but it has 6 different variations to it, and I know five, and practice 4 regularly. I guess I could count this anywhere from 1 to 5 forms.

Another of the Crane forms is very very long, so in the 1950s it was broken into two separate forms. I practice them separately, as well as together as one long form. I have also developed my own variation of the first half, for purposes of my own, and practice that on top of the original version. So I could count this as one, two, three, or even four forms.

I've got a Lohan form that my sifu modified for his own reasons. He has taught it to me both ways, the traditional, and his version.

I've got a tai chi sword form that also has the original version, and my sifu's personal modifications.

How I count them generally depends on what kind of bragging rights I want

. I could say I've got 13 forms right here, or I could just call it four.

I wonder how close to Hakutsuru the tibetan crane form is.. or perhaps it should be the other way around? any way wonder how close the kata are..

 

[TimoS]

we have 22 open hand in the system and 4 other empty hand kata that most people learn as well before shodan ho..

So by shodan you need to have learned 26 kata? That's a huge amount. Is the rest of the time, i.e. upper black belts spent digesting and perfecting what has been learned?

For us, it doesn't go like that, because we're not taught e.g. Chinto until we've reached nidan, that is, unless someone agrees to teach it to you beforehand. From my previous style I have some knowledge how that might look, but e.g. the bunkai is something I have no knowledge about

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I believe that Shobayashi has 24-26 kata. I am about 95% sure.

we have 22 open hand in the system and 4 other empty hand kata that most people learn as well before shodan ho.. plus at least the 9 bo kata and some of the 4 sai kata and 3 tunfa, 3 kama,2 eku,2 tekko, 2 nunchuku that I can think of off hand, and a few others I dont know of I am sure. I dont know all the weapons kata, but I do know that some of them are kinda tought to people who seem to enjoy them and fit them .. I will eventualy learn them all I am sure.
of the kobudo/kobujitsu kata I know 5 pretty well and one sorta..
and know some other weapons katas.. but any way not as well as I would like.

Thanks to both of you. Though its a lot of kata its not really for a life of study it is when you try to learn it all in a short time but not overtime a lifetime.

 

[Flying Crane]

I wonder how close to Hakutsuru the tibetan crane form is.. or perhaps it should be the other way around? any way wonder how close the kata are..

I expect they are actually worlds apart.

There are a couple different Crane systems in Chinese arts, and they are completely different methods, with separate histories, and vastly different techniques.

Tibetan White Crane was developed in Tibet by Lamas, and later brought into China. It went by several names, Lion's Roar as a tribute to the Buddha, then Lama Pai, or "style of the Lamas", then Hop Gar, or "hero's style", and it didn't pick up the name White Crane until around the 1940s or 1950s. Some of these others still exist as sister arts. They are very similar in certain ways, but they have branched and gone in different directions.

Fukien White Crane is also known as Southern Shaolin White Crane. This art traces roots to the Southern Shaolin Temple, and is completely different from the Tibetan White Crane. This is the system that has influenced the development of the fighting arts of Okinawa and Japan.

I have heard of other White Crane arts, such as White Crane of Omei, but I don't know anything about it.

It seems that vastly different arts sometimes end up with a similar name. The developers of the different art apparently focused on a different aspect of the crane, developed the art as they saw fit, and gave it a name that made sense to them.

I found a clip on youtube, of one of our forms in Tibetan White Crane. Unfortunately, it seems the Tibetan Crane is sort of rare on youtube, and examples are not very good. I don't feel this example is very high quality, it's actually pretty sloppy, but at least it will give you an example of what the system is like, very long range punching, lots of movement, very energetic, very arobic and athletic and exhausting.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ztMa0iRLQhg&mode=related&search=

 

[Seeking Zen]

**Beware of my Spelling**

Well ...I just received my Blue Belt last Night !!! (applause)

Here is my present Kata List ( Kobudo, and Soft/ Internal Arts (Tai Chi, Bagwa ETC.) not included

Taikiyoku Gedan

Taikiyoku ChudanTaikiyoku JodanTaikiyoku Soto ChudanTaikiyoku MawashukiTaikiyoku KokukiGekisai Itch

Gekisai NiSanchinWansuTenshoSaifaBassa DaiLearning NextSanchin TenshoSeiunchin

Senseru

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Congratulations on your blue belt.

 

[Seeking Zen]

Thanks!!

 

[chinto]

**Beware of my Spelling**

Well ...I just received my Blue Belt last Night !!! (applause)

Here is my present Kata List ( Kobudo, and Soft/ Internal Arts (Tai Chi, Bagwa ETC.) not included

Taikiyoku Gedan

Taikiyoku ChudanTaikiyoku JodanTaikiyoku Soto ChudanTaikiyoku MawashukiTaikiyoku KokukiGekisai Itch

Gekisai NiSanchinWansuTenshoSaifaBassa DaiLearning NextSanchin TenshoSeiunchin

Senseru

can I ask out of curiosity.. what style/art you study??

 

[Seeking Zen]

I train Goju...however we train several "foreign" kata and both Goju Kai and Goju Ryu Versions of several Goju Kata.

 

[chinto]

I train Goju...however we train several "foreign" kata and both Goju Kai and Goju Ryu Versions of several Goju Kata.

kool... as far as "foreign kata" we all learn semperemie and a few other goju kata and a few of the matsumura seito if for no other reason then sensei knows them and thinks they reinforce some of the lessons in our other kata.. usualy about brown belt level.. I learned superempei at green belt level .. in that we ( the whole class ) basicly learned it .. not to polish of course, but learned its patern and such at the same time.

 

[Fiendlover]

i uasually say how many forms i do.

like tioga for example. there r four tiogas but they're bascically the same thing except for some different punches or block so technically its one kata but i usually say 4.
:idunno:

 

[shoshinkan]

I train and teach the following -

Pinan Sho, Ni
Naihanchi Sho, Ni

Passai
Chinto
Useishi
Kusanku

Soken No Bo
Soken No Sai
Jian No Kata

I train the following as supplimental kata -

Sanchin

So my awnser is 12 kata worked regulary and studied.

I can step through others but they are not part of my core training or interest really.

I DETEST learniong varients on a kata, prefering to stick to one format (which evolves as understanding deepens and broadens) and learning from there, I realise im odd and simple like that but there you go.

There are a couple of other kata that suppliment this list that I havent learnt yet of course, but im in no rush to learn them!

 

[Rabu]

When I performed Japanese sytem sets I have a list of about 53 "forms", counting the individual segments of a kata set that I was practicing. That wasnt including any weapons forms at all.

Currently I practice, poorly, the following Taolu from Northern Shaolin:

Shr Er Lu Tan Tui
Lien Bu
Duan Da
Mei Hua....

Weapons would include broadsword and staff.

One of the people in the school joined because his main school of practice required that he learn a set from another style to progress...

Shr Er Lu Tan Tui is "Twelve line Tan's Leg" as poorly translated as it can be. He learned line one....and earned his masters degree from his main style by doing so.

It took two years of daily work to complete Tan Tui to Shifu's satisfaction. This was in addition to working on basics and learning about the differences in Chinese application from the Japanese/American centric practice I came from.

Tan Tui would not even be classed as a 'form', but rather an excercise set. You should not see people performing Tan Tui for a tournament in competition, from my understanding. I am sure there are others out there who would disagree. How depressed might you be if you spent years learning a form only to find out its only an excercise set?

You learn Tan Tui so that you know the basics well enough to perform the sets which come next.

So I would say that I practice very few sets these days, and less frequently than I did when I was younger and newer to martial arts.

My understanding from my previous study was that each 'series' of kata were a single form, broken out to show specific types of Waza and Bunkai based on the changes from set to set. The Penan sets are a good example, using the same type of formation and movements working to different angles.

Just a few pennies from a pig,

Rob

 

[arnisador]

When considering how many Kata you practice, do you look at differing levels ie. Shodan, Nidan as portions of the same Kata or as a Kata in themselves?

I always counted them separately--they seemed different enough to me.