Kata

[tshadowchaser]

My instructor once asked me how many times I had done a certain Kata. After thinking and doing some mental addition I told him "about 1000 times" he then asked me to do the form and to give him my impression of what was good and bad about the form. I did as he requested and then he told me to let him know when I had done the form 3000 times and had learned a little more about it. True story folks.

I think we learn constantly from doing forms. It may be simple things like transferring from one stance to another or simply correct stance to things a little more complicated, but we learn. By doing a form I don't just mean doing movement I mean doing the form as a battle or truly trying to feel the clawing techniques of a tiger, leopard. or what those wings might feel like in motion.

some systems stress learning fewer things than others and there is no problem in this. Others have a vast amount of things to learn and thus more forms. Both ways of training a good and the forms in both have much to teach a student

 

[twayman]

I think we learn constantly from doing forms. It may be simple things like transferring from one stance to another or simply correct stance to things a little more complicated, but we learn.

Bingo... Hits the nail on the head.

 

[Flying Crane]

Here is another training aid not sure if you have tried before or not. Take a kata and do it 250-300 times in a row. Set aside enough time with on interruptions and just start hammering the kata out. Very eye opening indeed.

OK, so today I did this. I picked one of my shorter sets, Long Two set from Kenpo. It takes about 35 seconds or so to do it full power and speed. I only had about an hour to do as many as I could. I hit 52. That's an average of about 1 minute and 6 seconds per repetition, including resting. So, 35 seconds of furious activity, followed by 30 seconds of rest. Actually, it was more like 8 repetitions followed by two minutes of rest, but there ya go. Good activity. Maybe I'll pick another one tomorrow...

 

[JC2005]

learning new katas is always fun, and every time I practice I work every kata up to my current one, and I usually find something that needs fixing in the lower belt rank katas and I do that kata over and over again until I feel better about it. My sensei tells us every class that we need to do something 10000 times minimum to learn something and then to still practice it.

JC2005

 

[kingkong89]

true there is a lot of katas out there but most instructors will only teach you a set number of katas to learn so you are not req. to learn a lot.

 

[JackShadow]

Personally I hate katas. I just never got into them really, don't know why though. I learn them and do perfect a few for tournament use. But I generally just learn them well enough to tech them. However, I do appriciate them and learn as much as I can from every single one I come across.

 

[twendkata71]

Shadow, the more years you train in kata, the more you may enjoy them. Many fighters don't get into the kata until later in their training. The possibilities for techniques are endless. Many times when you discover what the moves are really for it gets more exciting.

 

[Carol]

Kata is the oldest method of passing along information from instructor to student, yet the effectiveness of instructors teaching kata vary widely because the learning style of students vary widely.

I love the forms we do in Silat. I'm absolutely mesmerized when I watch someone perform them. But when I try to actually do it...I wonder why the hell I'm actually paying someone to put me through such torturous frustration.

Kata provide more than just a batch of techniques or some bunkai...it shows the flow, the motion, and the progression of the style. For a perceptive instructor, it can provide many clues as to how a student learns, moves, and processes information. Its then up to the instructor to make all of this come alive.

 

[Shotochem]

My instructor once asked me how many times I had done a certain Kata. After thinking and doing some mental addition I told him "about 1000 times" he then asked me to do the form and to give him my impression of what was good and bad about the form. I did as he requested and then he told me to let him know when I had done the form 3000 times and had learned a little more about it. True story folks.

A very wise man indeed. All you have to do is go back and start doing your first and most basic forms all over again. They seem so very different and mean so much more now then when you first learned them.

If anyone has any old videotape of themselves doing kata, film yourself now doing the same kata. The difference is amazing.

 

[searcher]

At one time I felt as though I was not getting very much from the forms that I knew. I felt as though I was just going through the motions, but then soemthing changed. I had been teaching Chito-ryu for a while and decided to start a new style, I took up TKD. I found that as I learned the Ch'ang H'an forms that my skills were becoming sharper and soem of my techniques were looking better. So I went back and slowly picked apart the kata that I had been doing mindlessly for so many years. I quickly became renewed with my training in kata and I stopped feeling like they were a waste of time. I don't feel overwhelmed or even challenged, but I feel as though my knowledge base is expanding again from knowledge I possessed for years and overlooked. I have been learning forms from other styles and "making them my own" for a few years now. I still train in TKD and Chito-ryu with the fomrs from those styles( and I have even stated back into other styles from my past), but now I look to learn kata/hyungs/kuen form other styles as well. They make me perform better as a MAist and I know that now.

So to answer your question in short, no I don't feel overload in any way when it comes to forms.

 

[D.Cobb]

I have created new katas to include techniques that were not included in the existing katas. I find it easier to remember my techniques when they are in the context of a kata, rather than as loose pieces of information that are floating around independently.

In Kenpo, we have many self-defense techniques, many of which are included in the kata, and many of which are not. These are the techniques that I have used in building new katas. I don't pretend they are magical or innovative new kata, but rather are a repackaging of the existing material that makes it easier to remember it all, and therefor I am more likely to practice it all.

Give it a try. You get to be creative, and think about what makes sense. it can be a rewarding exercise.

My opinion of kata is that they are the encycleopedia of our styles. They contain the principles and concepts from which the specific nuances of our respective systems are created.

I think it is ok to create a new kata if that is what it takes for you to remember and train specific self defence techniques, especially for those of us who are in the technique driven systems like the various American Kenpo/kempo systems.

However, to take an old time kata and change it for any reason, is to lose the original message of the kata. Then we hold in awe the original masters, who performed feats of martial strength and dexterity by just using what they learnt from their katas.

But we, knowing better and looking for the easier way of doing things will change certain parts of kata, because "it makes more sense to do it this way", and in doing so don't even know what we have lost.

--Dave

 

[JackShadow]

Shadow, the more years you train in kata, the more you may enjoy them. Many fighters don't get into the kata until later in their training. The possibilities for techniques are endless. Many times when you discover what the moves are really for it gets more exciting.

I do understand what the moves in kata do. In fact that is one of the reasons why I learn them, to learn new techniques and perfect them. IEven though I dislike Katas I do learn as much as I can from them.

I have to say that much of my dislike for katas is probably due to the fact that I'm young and enjoy kumite so much.

 

[searcher]

I have to say that much of my dislike for katas is probably due to the fact that I'm young and enjoy kumite so much.

I once had this type of mentality. It quickly went by the wayside when I took up TKD adn I found the forms to be a great help with my sparring. As I have stated before, you need to draw on every source of information to be at your best. Open your mind and it will transform you. That may sound clicke', but it is highly effective.

 

[twendkata71]

When I was younger I really enjoyed kumite. I learned early on that if I had weak kata , then my kumite was weak. Soke Madden always told me to work harder on my kata to improve my fighting.
Most of my mentors in karate were kumite people, that did not do kata in competition. But, they always put value on learning and training in kata. It is good to see now days that Shihan Traylon Smith is doing kata in competition. I would still like to see Sensei Joe Minney do kata in competition, he is really good at kata.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Kata has so much value its hard to express just how much value. The true traditional sensei will understand and be able to express the value of kata in both their teaching and kumite. I have to say if I could see better my kumite would probably be better but I still put lots of emphasis on kata for both self defense and kumite.

 

[cstanley]

"Karate is kata; kata is karate."

 

[twendkata71]

Cstanley, what faction of Shito ryu are you? Just curious. I trained with some Shukokai people for a while and then I went to a camp with Minobu Miki(seito ha shito ryu), there was a big difference from the Shukokai, originally I think that Miki Hanshi was with the Hayashi ha group, but switched over and trained with Kenzo Mabuni Soke. Anyway, I found the Shito ryu style to have much depth and I like the hugh catalog of kata. I wonder how Mabuni O sensei could have learned so many kata.

 

[shotokan-kez]

I'm always messing up on my kata's, it's bad cos sensei has his beady eyes on me at the moment cos im training towards black belt. But the more he watches the more i mess up cos of my nerves. Yet if i do all the kata's at home i do them very well.

 

[cstanley]

Cstanley, what faction of Shito ryu are you? Just curious. I trained with some Shukokai people for a while and then I went to a camp with Minobu Miki(seito ha shito ryu), there was a big difference from the Shukokai, originally I think that Miki Hanshi was with the Hayashi ha group, but switched over and trained with Kenzo Mabuni Soke. Anyway, I found the Shito ryu style to have much depth and I like the hugh catalog of kata. I wonder how Mabuni O sensei could have learned so many kata.

I am Motobu ha Shito ryu, but am currently training in a Goju dojo to understand the differences in how they do Goju kata and how Shito ryu does them.

 

[Kwiter]

Methinks I best be quiet, after reading some of your posts it seems "I" have been wrong of late, my daughters BLAST thru their Kata like their heads are on fire and their butts are catching, I tell em to slow it down and "hold" each move a second the way I've seen Kata preformed at Tournaments.

They are currently doing Kenpo Kata Little Dragons and Little Tigers, they are Yellow Belts, no white stripe anymore.

Skennen Peace.