I do think humans have a spirit, and thus are spiritual beings at root. Saying someone said about life- "we are spiritual beings having a physical experience". In my own mind, this explains why humans are constantly attaching spiritual significance to everything. It's like as a whole we can't help but do it. Nothing is spiritual without human involvement.
Is Self-Defense Spiritual?
- Thread starter Appledog
- Start date
I do not. Everyone brings their own religion to Jow Ga. Jow Ga does not dictate a required spiritual thought or "way of being" People are what they are when they train Jow Ga, which is why teachers are mindful on who they teach. If Jow Ga had the ability to create good people, then we would not be concerned about instructing bad people.
I did not ask anything because experience naturally shapes people's beliefs and perceptions. We cannot separate the two because it becomes part of us. With that said. When we look at what people in the past are saying we should take into consideration what they may have been experiencing. What was going on during their time? Were they exposed to a lot of chaos and war? Did they fight in any battles? Did they train martial arts, did they use martial arts for fighting? Or did they just observe what they saw and what they believed they saw. Context is everything.
The mistake that most people tend to drift into is to not consider the context of what the author is saying. We (including me) tend to imprint an experience on the words of others that do not exist for the author of those words. For example, People who train to us Martial Arts techniques find peace in doing so.
- Sparring / competitive fighting relieves stress, it promotes good health and cardio, it promotes brain function in the area of analyzing body mechanics and reaction times. It allows the user to train strategy and consequences. It allows a user to overcome adversity and promotes positive self-esteem. Training martial arts applications creates positive social bonds, a warrior brotherhood so to speak, that is made of people who have been through "the elements of battles" It promotes self-realization of one's abilities and limitations in terms of their physical safety.
- Mentally Sparring /competitive fighting helps you mentally prepare with the fear, anxiety, stress, and uncertainty that comes with protecting yourself against physical and mental hardships. People who know how to fight often have a confidence that other's do not have. They have a sense of security and safety that other's may not half.
- Mentally people who train to fight often have a better appreciation of the pain encountered in fighting. They also tend to have better restraint of violence because it's what they have to do in training.
A world without Violence is not peace. Because that world is not balanced.
Here's a definition of Peace
Peace is a state of tranquility, calm, and harmony, free from conflict, violence, or disturbance. It can be understood in various contexts:
The reality of this definition is that one cannot define Peace unless there is violence, stress, anxiety, inner turmoil or conflict. Simply remove those words from the definition and there is no longer any peace. Peace is what you get when you overcome these things. To make a goal to be non-violent as the ultimate goal is to fail to understand that non-violent is an approach and it's a psychological approach. Monsters will be Monsters. Predators will be predators. They will eat you even if you are non-violent and that's the purpose of being non-violent. It makes it easier to prove that who you are protesting against is the monster you say they are, because Monsters are Monsters and Predators are predators, and they will still eat you even if you are non-violent.
Peace is a state of tranquility, calm, and harmony, free from conflict, violence, or disturbance. It can be understood in various contexts:
- Personal Peace: Inner calm and mental serenity, free from stress, anxiety, and inner turmoil.
- Social Peace: Harmony and cooperation within a community or society, characterized by the absence of conflict and violence.
- Global Peace: The absence of war and conflict between nations, promoting international cooperation and understanding.
The reality of this definition is that one cannot define Peace unless there is violence, stress, anxiety, inner turmoil or conflict. Simply remove those words from the definition and there is no longer any peace. Peace is what you get when you overcome these things. To make a goal to be non-violent as the ultimate goal is to fail to understand that non-violent is an approach and it's a psychological approach. Monsters will be Monsters. Predators will be predators. They will eat you even if you are non-violent and that's the purpose of being non-violent. It makes it easier to prove that who you are protesting against is the monster you say they are, because Monsters are Monsters and Predators are predators, and they will still eat you even if you are non-violent.
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Depends
If one wants to kill or wants to die,
How this is done is a matter of perspective.
Who is the hunter? Who is the hunted?
The point in each of your examples is to get beyond this.
Both can say they avoided the other.
Each allowing the other to live, both not wanting to die.
As an Infantry Medic "late 70s"
Stenciled this on my track (M577 APC)
file picture of 577
"trained to kill, born to die"
My sergeant, at the time laughed.
told me to, paint over it....in his usual colorful language..
after 10yrs in the medical corps, changed MOS's "jobs".
not having resolved this within myself... at the time.
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mograph
Master of Arts
Apparently, the quote is generally attributed to Pierre Teilhard De Chardin.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I had this happen in my security days..... generally all I said was..."Get in line"
Got a lot of death threats back then....had one call me on the phone... and then stayed on the line waiting for a reponse..... I said, "Brave person threatening over a phone...also stupid, for giving me a chance to respond" Then I hung up
Martial Arts and Spiritualism are still 2 different things.
Wrestling, along with various other sports, can take on a spiritual aspect for some participants. However, this spirituality is based on the individual's own beliefs and values that they bring to the sport. Wrestling itself does not impart any spiritual doctrine.
There is no spiritual doctrine called Wrestling.
I think this is important in the world of sports because it means people from different beliefs can participate and have the same experiences when doing so.
Wing Woo Gar
Senior Master
You are coming at this from a Japanese art perspective.
Wing Woo Gar
Senior Master
In order to make a moral choice, one must have an actual option. If one does not know how to dance, saying “I choose not to dance” is not an actual choice. Same with choosing not to fight. If one doesnt know how to defend oneself, one cannot make an actual choice between defending oneself or not. That moral choice is not available to most people, although most will imagine that it is. Four Virtues help govern this and guide
Not peace, resolution of conflict.
Wing Woo Gar
Senior Master
Patience, Virtuous Harmony, Courage, Resolution of conflict ( The Way ).
Wing Woo Gar
Senior Master
One can have good Gung fu doing dishes. It just means hard skillful work. If you have good gung fu in wrestling, that can be one persons path to spiritual enlightenment. Many paths to the same goal. Spirituality is what you make of it, ritual comes in every flavor.
Exactly. But I think it's amazing that no matter where humans are from. Most of us aren't willing to die for someone or something less than we see ourselves. A God of War is a very high ego lol. Or maybe not it speaks to the level of violence being so great that it would only be something that God could stop on that day. My guess emotions not only burn up quickly but they probably cycle through various states and the only thing that would be stable would be the idea or belief in a God of War.
What works even better is if my enemy believes my God of War is stronger than whoever they look up to. It's probably why the first thing Conquerors would do is smash religion and spiritualism.
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Or maybe a Society that understood
how to handle things in their time.
In China there was a saying
诛灭九族 (zhū miè jiǔ zú).
extermination of nine generations
Punishment would extend to the criminal’s entire extended family, including grandparents, parents, children, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., up to nine familial relations.
Along with a little more up to-date
“斩草除根” (zhǎn cǎo chú gēn)
"cutting the grass and removing the roots."
Eliminate something completely, ensuring that no remnants are left behind to cause future problems.
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One year, my teacher was the main judge in one Taiwan SC tournament. A guy sat on his judge seat and refused to move. During the conflict, my teacher threw him down. The guy tried to poke my teacher's eyes. My teacher bit his finger off. The guy said, "I'll come back to you for this." Since that day, My teacher always carried a stick and looked for that guy. Finally, my teacher found that guy and settled the business once for all.
It's better to be the hunter than to be the hunted. The spiritual of self-defense is to let your enemy to defend himself.
My favor Chinese martial art spirit:
神挡杀神, 佛挡杀佛 If God is in my way, I'll kill God. if Buddha is in my way, I'll kill Buddha.
Sammy Naur
Green Belt
And yet, a wrestler without spirit will lose every time.
To wrestle successfully you need to summon internal willpower, and isn't that what we mean by spirit?
Not a soul or ghost or anything supernatural, but a nature based instinct to overcome.
Sammy Naur
Green Belt
This is why I don't see martial arts and spiritualism as separate.
We are talking about self defense. It's not always "kill or be killed" extreme but it can be. Nothing motivates the will the survive like the power of fear, and isn't that the whole point of spiritualism? Conquering fear.
Without spiritualism you could argue any martial art will never work for you. And we see that all the time. For everyone who has a strong spirit to train to defend in action there must be a thousand with no such animation to act when threatened. These people go to classes, through the motions, claim to be scholars of warrior arts without ever being in a real conflict.
I'm not big on quotations to make a point but there are a lot on this one issue. "To be or not to be, that is the question...Horatio". That's a bit of a mashup but I think Hamlet is a good study for this topic.
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I can't remember who had said this MA spirit.
- If you attack me, I'll move back.
- If you attack me again, I'll still move back.
- If you attack me the 3rd time, I'll jump in and eat you alive.
Sammy Naur
Green Belt
I think we are on the same page.
Maybe what are really two different animals are spirit and religion. Martial arts are all about spirit, maybe to survive or die trying to save others. As opposed to all those religions through history that brought the violence, mostly through words and rhetoric.
Many people will say "I'm not religious but I'm spiritual". But a well trained martial artist, you're going to feel their spirit. The look in the eye, their heart, their energy.
"Eye of the tiger, Rock". That animal spirit inside every human, doesn't necessary need a religion, a God, or any sort of philosophy. It's innate and primeval just waiting to be tapped.
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I love the battle speech of the movie.
Aye, fight and you may die. Run and you'll live -- at least a while. And dying in your beds many years from now,
