Is Self-Defense Spiritual?

[Xue Sheng]

My favor Chinese martial art spirit:

神挡杀神, 佛挡杀佛 If God is in my way, I'll kill God. if Buddha is in my way, I'll kill Buddha.

“If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him” - ninth-century Chinese Buddhist monk Linji Yixuan.

 

[windwalker099]

The guy tried to poke my teacher's eyes. My teacher bit his finger off. The guy said, "I'll come back to you for this." Since that day, My teacher always carried a stick and looked for that guy. Finally, my teacher found that guy and settled the business once for all.

A time in a society still having old ways, things very different..now.

it's better to be the hunter than to be the hunted.

Meant to suggest that either role can change...both roles depend on each other.

If one can get past the duality of / either, or / one can act in accordance with their nature , in the moment.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

“If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him” - ninth-century Chinese Buddhist monk Linji Yixuan.

In Chinese history, Buddha temples always own a lot of land without paying tax to the country. The Buddha temples would loan farmers money for 50% interest annually. If the farmers could not pay interest on time, the Buddha temples would take over the farmer's land. This way the Buddha temples would have more land. The ancient Chinese government would lost tax money.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A time in a society still having old ways, things very different..now.

Meant to suggest that either role can change...both roles depend on each other.

If one can get past the duality of / either, or / one can act in accordance with their nature , in the moment.

I truly don't see anything different today. Go to the police? Police will not deal with personal problem like this.

My teacher's 2nd son made enemy in Taiwan. One day when he came home, someone stabbed him on the back and killed him.

You have 2 options here.

1. Worry about your enemy will get you someday, but you don't know when. You may live in fear every day and you don't know when someone will stab you on your back (gun is not available in Taiwan).
2. Face your enemy and settle the problem once for all.

Which way will you take?

 

[JowGaWolf]

One can have good Gung fu doing dishes.

I agree. The key part of this is that you said "doing dishes" and not "being philosophical" about dishes.. There's nothing wrong about being "Philosophical", but it tends to be more exact in the context of doing, especially if your life is going to be based off the Philosophy of doing dishes.

If I only make then I can still add my two cents about my Philosophy of doing dishes. It's like you say, there are many options. However, If I'm going to based my life on Philosophy of doing dishes then, it becomes more important on the context in which it was made and if the person making the statement has experienced "doing"

My pet peeve is to have a woman tell me how to be a man. So if I get any philosophy from a woman about how to be a man then I'm going off the charts with that. lol.

But I'll do the same thing when men tell women how to be women. For menee

One year, my teacher was the main judge in one Taiwan SC tournament. A guy sat on his judge seat and refused to move. During the conflict, my teacher threw him down. The guy tried to poke my teacher's eyes. My teacher bit his finger off. The guy said, "I'll come back to you for this." Since that day, My teacher always carried a stick and looked for that guy. Finally, my teacher found that guy and settled the business once for all.

It's better to be the hunter than to be the hunted. The spiritual of self-defense is to let your enemy to defend himself.

As a teen someone told me that someone was looking for me

To wrestle successfully you need to summon internal willpower, and isn't that what we mean by spirit?

That's how I would think but that's not the meaning that I got from the original post in this thread..

My teacher's 2nd son made enemy in Taiwan. One day when he came home, someone stabbed him on the back and killed him.

You have 2 options here.

1. Worry about your enemy will get you someday, but you don't know when. You may live in fear every day and you don't know when someone will stab you on your back (gun is not available in Taiwan).
2. Face your enemy just once and settle the problem once for all.

Which way will you take?

Go to police? Police will not deal with personal problem like this.

I thought about what I would do. I looked at my past actions throughout my life. Each time I became the hunter or the spider. When someone mke plans to hurt or kill me then I will make plans.

In one case I told the police about the threat to my safety. He told me thst its better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6. I was shocked but understood. So I made plans. I became the spider in the web.

I've been the wolf too. If you see one then know there is another near by watching. Even my fighting style is like this. I'm either the spider or wolf.

I don't remember being the type that waits to be eaten.

 

[Buka]

Very spiritual this thread, very deep.

I may have to wear boots.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't remember being the type that waits to be eaten.

That's the true meaning of self-defense. Pass the fear to your enemy if you can.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You are coming at this from a Japanese art perspective.

Is that an issue for the topic, or just an observation? If an observation, what's the relevance?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Just read through this whole thread, and ultimately what stands out is we need a concrete definition of 'spiritual'.

Is it being zen, is it willpower and dedication, is it a view of enlightenment/working towards enlightenment, is it something else, or something more abstract? Does it have to do with willingness to work, or contemplate? Is it religious?

Who is more spiritual, the wrestler who has the willpower to train 6 days a week, 4 hours a day, purely to improve, or the buddhist who meditates twice a day but otherwise does not work on himself? What if the wrestler is using his martial prowess to bully others, or the meditator isn't following buddhist beliefs 24/7?

these are all examples/variations i took from this thread. Ultimately i think we need a working definition of spiritual (and probably of self defence) in order for this discussion to go anywhere meaningful.

 

[Appledog]

Just read through this whole thread, and ultimately what stands out is we need a concrete definition of 'spiritual'.

Is it being zen, is it willpower and dedication, is it a view of enlightenment/working towards enlightenment, is it something else, or something more abstract? Does it have to do with willingness to work, or contemplate? Is it religious?

Who is more spiritual, the wrestler who has the willpower to train 6 days a week, 4 hours a day, purely to improve, or the buddhist who meditates twice a day but otherwise does not work on himself? What if the wrestler is using his martial prowess to bully others, or the meditator isn't following buddhist beliefs 24/7?

these are all examples/variations i took from this thread. Ultimately i think we need a working definition of spiritual (and probably of self defence) in order for this discussion to go anywhere meaningful.

This thread is like a well cooked fish and a definition feels a lot like poking it.

This has been one of the more interesting and enlightening threads I've read in quite a while. Thank you very much my friends.

 

[windwalker099]

My teacher's 2nd son made enemy in Taiwan. One day when he came home, someone stabbed him on the back and killed him.

Sorry to hear of his death...

You have 2 options here.

1. Worry about your enemy will get you someday, but you don't know when. You may live in fear every day and you don't know when someone will stab you on your back (gun is not available in Taiwan).

No longer true, those who use them, have them...I know this from something that happened to a family members friend working in a bank in Hsinchu...he was shot and killed.

His friend did not live in fear, did not have an enemy, he died as we all do.
How he died, a moment in time.

The one who shot him not able to get away..ran into another building.
Living in fear, he shot himself...also died as we all do...

Between them one lived in fear, the other not
both unaware.

2. Face your enemy and settle the problem once for all.

And your family members ? will they also have to face "your" enemy
You mentioned gangs.

"斩草除根" cutting the grass and removing the roots,
The Chinese understood how to deal with this...

Which way will you take?

To live in awareness
To act with awareness

I truly don't see anything different today. Go to the police? Police will not deal with personal problem like this.

Not really true... in many states, making a threat to kill someone is a felony offense. In California, it is covered under Penal Code Section 422.

Times are not the same...

For many years, my training was about fighting, enemies, etc. What my training was about and how I trained.
Now, a little older, my training is about "awareness"—what it means to be aware and act on this.

we all die at some point.

found everyones postings interesting reading...

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This thread is like a well cooked fish and a definition feels a lot like poking it.

This has been one of the more interesting and enlightening threads I've read in quite a while. Thank you very much my friends.

My understanding is that poking a fish is what you do when you're looking to see if it's fully complete.

If so, I created a new thread to explore that further, which you might be interested in: What do you consider spiritual?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Is that an issue for the topic, or just an observation? If an observation, what's the relevance?

An observation. It’s relevant because Taoist philosophy as applied to martial arts and Chinese culture in general is quite a bit different from Japanese arts, culture in general, and, philosophy. In the instance I was responding to, the Tao Te Ching was referenced.

 

[Same Trick]

You are coming at this from a Japanese art perspective.

I think that what issshinryuronin stated also is a saying in some Chinese martial arts, if memory serves I believe “windwalker” had mentioned same as it was something within the “Hop-gar” tradition?

 

[Haruhiko]

Not explicitly, but implicitly I believe this to be the case.

Self-defence, especially through martial arts, is more than just learning to protect oneself - it’s a journey of self-awareness and balance. Every technique is an opportunity to align mind and body, to learn respect for oneself and others, and to navigate the fine line between power and restraint. In that balance, I find a kind of clarity, a quiet connection to something deeper - a harmony that feels both personal and universal.

 

[Same Trick]

Spiritual - something or someone being involved with/ in pursuit of spirit.

Spirit would be - air/breath, which in East Asian traditions would be equal to Qi/Ki. So in that tradition being spiritual would be being immersed in strengthening one’s Qi/Ki - Qigong.

Since concept of strengthening/manipulating one’s Qi also more or less is present in CMA , then one could say martial arts are spiritual. ?

 

[Sammy Naur]

I love the battle speech of the movie

Me too, but that movie is another ahistorical fake.

It's now considered one of the worst movies ever to depict the history of Scotland. Almost everything in that movie is wrong, but the themes resonate with human spiritual emotion. A secret wedding, a murdered lass, violent retribution, and obviously at the end, sacrifice for the cause.

Audiences love this sort of thing. It's so Shakespearen.

Mel Gibson was kind of going through some drama in his life, and decided to reimagine the Scottish war for Independence, in his own eyes and romantic ideations. Got it all wrong but hit on something real.

Like Apocalypto, his movie about South America, or Passion of the Christ, he made what looks great on film, but total fantasy when compared to historical reality.

And then when we got to know the real Mel Gibson, well. The Road Warrior himself, an empty wheel. I still watch those Mad Max movies, telling myself not to judge. Life imitating art imitating life I suppose.

I'm glad George Miller remade them. You want to see some martial spiritualism? Fury Road and Furiosa

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I think that what issshinryuronin stated also is a saying in some Chinese martial arts, if memory serves I believe “windwalker” had mentioned same as it was something within the “Hop-gar” tradition?

I’m not familiar with Hop Gar. It wasn’t meant as an indictment. Maybe I read too much into it. In any case, no disrespect was intended to @isshinryuronin. My apologies if I offended.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Me too, but that movie is another ahistorical fake.

It's now considered one of the worst movies ever to depict the history of Scotland. Almost everything in that movie is wrong, but the themes resonate with human spiritual emotion. A secret wedding, a murdered lass, violent retribution, and obviously at the end, sacrifice for the cause.

Audiences love this sort of thing. It's so Shakespearen.

Mel Gibson was kind of going through some drama in his life, and decided to reimagine the Scottish war for Independence, in his own eyes and romantic ideations. Got it all wrong but hit on something real.

Like Apocalypto, his movie about South America, or Passion of the Christ, he made what looks great on film, but total fantasy when compared to historical reality.

And then when we got to know the real Mel Gibson, well. The Road Warrior himself, an empty wheel. I still watch those Mad Max movies, telling myself not to judge. Life imitating art imitating life I suppose.

I'm glad George Miller remade them. You want to see some martial spiritualism? Fury Road and Furiosa

I prefer the first two originals. Less Hollywood, more dirt. There is waaaaytoo much makeup and effects in the George miller iterations for my taste. Way too many brand new machine guns and Bondo monster trucks. In the old one, a rag with some rotten shotgun shells was the best one could hope for. Same with “I am legend”, “Omega man” was so much better.

 

[windwalker099]

Since concept of strengthening/manipulating one’s Qi also more or less is present in CMA , then one could say martial arts are spiritual. ?

A little off-topic, wanted to offer some thoughts on terminology used.

The use of (气) Qì and (神) Shén, or "spirit," is quite distinct and different from the English word "spirit."
The same can be said for the English word "intent" (意) Yì.

In CMA, how these terms are grouped and expressed depends on whether they are used directly, with the body acting as a conduit, as in arts labeled "internal," or indirectly supporting the body, as in arts labeled "external."

CMA is not about becoming "spiritual" in the sense of the associated with the English meanings of the word,
the thread What do you consider spiritual? attempting to capture thoughts on it.

CMA focus a little more utilitarian based, then Japanese MA, the suffix "do" (道) "way" added to the name indicating a practice thought to embody spiritual development alongside the physical techniques.

ZEN
IN THE ART OF ARCHERY

I comforted myself with the hope that this technical solution would gradually become so habitual that it would require no further notice from me, and that the day would come when, thanks to it,I should be in a position to loose the shot, self− obliviously and unconsciously, at the moment of highest tension, and that in this case the technical ability would spiritualize itself.

The very first shot I let off after the recommencement of the lessons was, to my mind, a brilliant success. The loose was smooth, unexpected. The Master looked at me for a while and then said hesitantly, like one who can scarcely believe his eyes:
" Once again, please! "

My second shot seemed to me even better than the first. The Master stepped up to me without a word, took the bow from my hand, and sat down on a cushion, his back towards me. I knew what that meant, and withdrew.