How the Japanese view of the black belt
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
- Start date
Is that really the best response you could come up with? Seriously?
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It's only nonsense to those who can't understand English.
No, but it’s the kindest.
A kind response would be where you address all that I point out in my post at #286.
Much of that depends on the school they go to. Some schools are harder than others, particularly private schools. A friend of mine who went to a really hard private school was doing what would be 6th and 7th grade work at a standard public school, when he was in the 5th grade.
In BJJ I believe that's what they wear for 7th Dan, or for some of the high Dan ranks. For the highest ranks of 9th and 10th Dan they wear a solid red belt.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Nicest maybe... but kindest? There's a significant and meaningful difference between being nice and being kind.
I think you're right, but I've never heard them referred to as "Dan" ranks in BJJ. Just rank or belt rank. I may be mistaken.
Than I shall be neither.
What is the difference?
I believe so. For all the belts under the black belt the ranks are referred to by the belt color that represents them (white belt, blue belt, and so forth.) For the ranks of first degree and above the ranks are referred to as degrees rather than Dans. When you first get a black belt you are first degree. When you get to seventh degree you wear a belt of alternating red and black colors called a coral belt. When you get to eighth degree you wear a belt of alternating red and white colors, also called a coral belt. For ninth and tenth degree it's a solid red belt.
Godan is much higher than Shodan so it's not the same thing. What Im talking about is the rank of Shodan and how it's viewed in Japan. To the best of my knowledge in Japan the rank of Shodan is simply seen as the rank after Ikkyu and the rank before Nidan. When you go higher in the Dan ranks in Japan it might be different and I believe that's when they do start to make it significantly harder to advance in rank, once you start going up the Dan ranks beyond Shodan. As Godan is quite high up there it might be different as to who the allow to hold such a rank or to go beyond such a rank but Im talking about the rank of Shodan.
From some of my own research and experience I've heard that in Japan, and by that I mean contemporary Japan not Japan eighty years ago, that the rank of Shodan is seen as just the rank after Ikkyu and the rank before Nidan, nothing more.
I think you’re right.
I think it would be more appropriate to continue this specific conversation about contradictions in this other thread of mine Contradictions In The Martial Arts. Here is the link.
Contradictions In The Martial Arts
I was asking a question myself. I think it would be difficult, at least the way I'm looking at it, to equate trade titles to martial arts ranks. Journeymen are supposed to have working competency, but still require supervision. Masters do not require supervision. Titles in that context would...
www.martialtalk.com
Definitely. When NGA came to the US (1961, if I recall correctly), colored belts were part of the system. All the photos in Hokaido were black and white, and I don't recall seeing anything that looked like colored belts in them, but I might also only have seen photos from advanced classes at that dojo (so all belts would be black, or possibly purple/browh/black, if they used colors).
I think I've said this before (possibly in this thread), but in case I haven't:
It's entirely reasonable to create a rank that is a dividing line. Before that rank, anyone can progress. Past that rank, there could be only the most serious students (allowing the instructor to focus differently). If I were designing such a rank, I'd make it significantly harder than the rank below it, and possibly harder (relatively speaking) than the ranks above. The idea would be to challenge folks. Those who choose to meet that challenge can progress in rank. The rest could keep training at the previous rank, with no shame to it.
Within the NGAA, this sort of exists at ikkyu. While the overall progression is similar, the test at ikkyu is significantly harder than previous ranks, having dramatically different requirements. The test for shodan is significantly harder, but in line with, ikkyu. This makes sense, given that ikkyu is a student-instructor rank, and shodan is a full-instructor rank. You'd want to make sure only serious students make it into those ranks.
GJJ uses stripes, where other styles use colors. If they use 2 stripes per belt (not sure if that's accurate) and 3 colors (off the top of my head, I think that's right?), then they have 8 steps between plain white and plain black. I don't see a significant functional difference - most styles use stripes beyond shodan. Both are visible indicators of some sort of progress. Stripes are just easier than changing the belt as often.
I personally like fewer steps in visual indicators, but that's likely just because that's what I'm used to - the NGAA uses 4 colored belts between white and black, and I used the same in my curriculum (though I briefly reduced that to 3).
The NGAA took a similar approach, though the breaking point is at nidan. It's useful in an organization where you want to distribute authority. I'm not sure it has any utility in small organizations (a few schools) or a single school.
Some systems don't use the kyu terminology. I didn't with my students (except in the student manual, as a reference for those coming from systems that used that terminology). There's nothing wrong with that - knowing someone is 2nd kyu doesn't tell you any more than the colors, unless you know the requirement within that system.People proudly tell me, “Yeah I’m an blue belt with two bands, one black, one intermittent yellow.” It means nothing to me so I ask what kyu grade that is and they usually reply “What’s that?”
Not necessarily. I briefly used only 3 colors, but it was a change I created in the early 2000's, so not really an old-school thing.
The only belt worth having is the one that has some worth to you. If you value the achievement behind the belt, it's worth having. My favorite to this day is my brown belt. I worked hard to get it and while wearing it. Shodan was relatively easy for me, because I worked so hard, so it's a symbol of me passing a test - the brown (to me) is a symbol of my hard work. If I were to go back and train in NGA as a student, I'd probably put that brown belt back on, because it's what I like best. (I actually toyed with the idea of having BB students wear their brown belt when they wanted to indicate they were training as a senior student that day.)The only belt worth having is the the one that keeps up your pants at this moment. As of karate and really anything, either you can or you can't do it, and a belt doesn't make a iota of difference. Dont know how they think of it in Japan, but it seems to me the only reasonable way of thinking.
