How important is fighting in the Martial Arts?

[Cirdan]

Where Hanzou lives:

 

[K-man]

As to the importance of fighting.

Here is an interesting clip of fighting compilation starting with some grappling that develops into no gi as the bout continues.

The second part demonstrates the difficulty of training on uneven and unstable terrain.

Next there is an example of two different styles clashing then one showing a reverse strike from the extended appendage.

Next part demonstrates using your body to move a taller opponent ... then the old adage, "if it looks like a duck".

This is followed by some interesting backyard sparring followed by an example of a strangle or choke using leverage. Then follows a good example of fighting from your back on the ground against a standing opponent.

Ther's a bit of bull and a bit on maintaining your balance and a nice bit of straight wrestling.

Enjoy the clip. I'm sure you'll get more from it than from a lot of the other posts here.

 

[elder999]

No. You didn't understand what I said, so no I didn't contradict myself . In fact you don't actually read and comprehend what people write. I said it was his interest in and knowledge of Jujutsu that enabled him to use it in his style but of course that's not want you want to read. You want an argument, you want to be right all the time in your assertions and will actually twist people's words to make them fit what you think. If you aren't going to be honest when discussing things there's little point in discussing anything with you is there?
While you are entitled to your own opinions you are not entitled to your own facts.

C'mon, Irene,(Hey, isn't there a song in there??`) get with the program-it makes more sense to ridicule his posts than to even attempt to answering them seriously.

And now, an oldie but a goodie, a special prize for Hanzou to hang on the wall of the ki-bor do dojo,

 

[Hanzou]

No. You didn't understand what I said, so no I didn't contradict myself . In fact you don't actually read and comprehend what people write. I said it was his interest in and knowledge of Jujutsu that enabled him to use it in his style but of course that's not want you want to read. You want an argument, you want to be right all the time in your assertions and will actually twist people's words to make them fit what you think. If you aren't going to be honest when discussing things there's little point in discussing anything with you is there?
While you are entitled to your own opinions you are not entitled to your own facts.

You posted your style of Karate to prove that there were styles of Karate that taught a great deal of throws. Unfortunately, your particular style of Karate is a mixture of Karate and Jujutsu.

Let me know when my opinion came into play.

 

[K-man]

I guess some of us LEARNED mawatte on the first day in ka-rotty, while others went trough the motions. But oh it is so HIDDEN!

Another scotch please, extra ice!

Oh dear! Your not going to tell me that's not just a turn are you. I mean, we all know there are no takedowns in karate because all fighting is from 2 metres apart. I know that for a fact 'cos I've seen it on YouTube.

 

[K-man]

You posted your style of Karate to prove that there were styles of Karate that taught a great deal of throws. Unfortunately, your particular style of Karate is a mixture of Karate and Jujutsu.

Let me know when my opinion came into play.

This is your opinion from a position of ignorance. Those of us that know better recognise that many, if not most of the Jujutsu techniques are contained within traditional karate.

 

[Cirdan]

Oh dear! Your not going to tell me that's not just a turn are you. I mean, we all know there are no takedowns in karate because all fighting is from 2 metres apart. I know that for a fact 'cos I've seen it on YouTube.

Well since I`ve had several scotches by now I will tell you the super secrecht application of the mawatthee, you turn your bachk on the enemy and catch him by suprise with a great schmelly fart! Instant win!!

 

[K-man]

C'mon, Irene,(Hey, isn't there a song in there??`) get with the program-it makes more sense to ridicule his posts than to even attempt to answering them seriously.

And now, an oldie but a goodie, a special prize for Hanzou to hang on the wall of the ki-bor do dojo,

View attachment 19056

Been thinking about your rabbit quite a bit over the past posts so I thought I raise you a pup.
(And I would if I could only get my image to load. )

 

[Hanzou]

This is your opinion from a position of ignorance. Those of us that know better recognise that many, if not most of the Jujutsu techniques are contained within traditional karate.

Well, feel free to explain this "ignorance" to various Wado Ryu federations around the globe who contain descriptions such as this on their websites;

While still a student of Funakoshi, Ohtsuka Sensei began to experiment with various sparring ideas and jujitsu techniques. Ohtsuka Sensei wanted to incorporate Shindo Yoshin’s jujitsu techniques with Funakoshi’s karate techniques to create what he felt was a more complete system and left Funakoshi to create what is now known as Wado Ryu. Ohtsuka Sensei also studied with and borrowed ideas from other karate notables such as Kenwa Mabuni, the founder of Shito Ryu, and Choki Motobu, famous for his Naihanchi kata and street fighting skills.

 

[K-man]

Ah! There we go! And some timely advice as well.

 

[Tez3]

Ohtsuka Sensei cannot be any of those things because I can't find it on You Tube! I only know he existed because he has videos on there!

You posted your style of Karate to prove that there were styles of Karate that taught a great deal of throws. Unfortunately, your particular style of Karate is a mixture of Karate and Jujutsu.

Let me know when my opinion came into play.

Where is that damn rofl emoticon when you need it? Please please can we have our old emoticons back!

Hanzou, Hanzou, what are we going to do with you, throws it is now, just throws? You see, despite everything you've been told about Wado you still persist in misunderstanding and putting your own spin on what is being said. Your own spin is fine for Masterchef, they like things like that there but dear me, it's not the truth when it comes to martial arts. As I said if we are going to keep to the truth of things not much point in talking really, much better to agree you are wrong.

 

[Tez3]

Well, feel free to explain this "ignorance" to various Wado Ryu federations around the globe who contain descriptions such as this on their websites;

You didn't understand again did you, you posted it up and you didn't bloody well understand it oh my days, that takes the biscuit.

 

[K-man]

Well, feel free to explain this "ignorance" to various Wado Ryu federations around the globe who contain descriptions such as this on their websites;

What of the part you highlighted don't you understand. Your highlighted quote backs up 100% what I put in my earlier post about Wado Ryu.

 

[Cirdan]

There is one reason for this tread.

Hanzou:

Off to bed, those scotches kick hard. Talk to you guys tomorrow.

 

[Hanzou]

What of the part you highlighted don't you understand. Your highlighted quote backs up 100% what I put in my earlier post about Wado Ryu.

You said that many JJ techniques already existed in traditional karate. That quote states that the founder of Wado Ryu incorporated JJ into his personal style of Karate in order to create a more complete system.

If your argument were true, no style mixing would have been necessary.

 

[Tez3]

You said that many JJ techniques already existed in traditional karate. That quote states that the founder of Wado Ryu incorporated JJ into his personal style of Karate in order to create a more complete system.

If your argument were true, no style mixing would have been necessary.

In the beginning was karate, then there were different styles then there were those who wished to go back to the one karate and then there are idiots who think they know it all. My son, I will pray that you may gain enlightenment.....or at the very least reading comprehension.

 

[K-man]

Gosh, things are travelling so fast I almost missed this little gem.

Well for starters I never claimed to be an expert in Karate.

You could have fooled me. You backed up your crazy notion of karate by telling us you held a high rank in karate that turned out to be Shodan. Now your saying you are not an expert so I accept that you know nothing about karate and that validates our opinion of your opinions on karate.

Further, I was responding to the notion that there were 70+ grappling abilities within Karate and TKD. If all of that grappling is "hidden" in the kata, I'm not surprised that its almost nonexistent in modern karate. Its pretty hard teaching grappling from a kata.

Grappling starts on day one with the stances. Sanchin dachi, zenkutsu dachi and Shiko dachi are three of the stances you are taught on your first training session that are your stances for your first takedowns. That is day one, not after you get your Shodan. Then mawatte was mentioned. Maybe not taught on day one but certainly in the first three or four lessons. Mawatte is a hip throw. You really didn't pay attention in your karate classes. A white belt in my class could show you those, in fact my students all have to demonstrate them in their Kyu gradings, plus a wide range of locks and holds. As to 'modern' karate, I wouldn't know but it was even in the Japanese karate I was taught over 30 years ago.

So why is it so hard to teach grappling from kata? The use of kata and the application had been explained to you countless times yet you still make stupid claims about kata, something you never understood and obviously have zero knowledge. As soon as you start training the kata bunkai you are grappling.

Pretty hard to learn grappling without sparring as well.

Define sparring! The videos you claim to be karate sparring have all been point sparring, competition type sparring. I posted some of the other style of training and you spouted that it wasn't real karate and that no one else trains that way.

If sparring is what you do in BJJ then we spar too.

Scroll up, that's exactly the numbers Danny T mentioned.

Here is what Danny said;

Most people's first experience with Bjj was in the UFC. Royce did plenty of striking . Same applies to the Gracie in Action films. Again, plenty of striking.

I'm not denying there is striking in BJJ. It is ironic that you ignore the striking in Aikido and the grappling in karate, especially after so many people have told you, you are wrong.

 

[K-man]

Something wrong with my post.
Here is the rest of it if anyone else can't read it ...

Referring to Danny T's post ...

That seems pretty clear to me. What part of it did you have difficulty understanding? I couldn't find his post referring to 70+. If you are going to quote a post then quote it properly.

Most people's first experience with Bjj was in the UFC. Royce did plenty of striking . Same applies to the Gracie in Action films. Again, plenty of striking.

I'm not denying there is striking in BJJ. It is ironic that you ignore the striking in Aikido and the grappling in karate, especially after so many people have told you, you are wrong.[/QUOTE]

 

[K-man]

You said that many JJ techniques already existed in traditional karate. That quote states that the founder of Wado Ryu incorporated JJ into his personal style of Karate in order to create a more complete system.

If your argument were true, no style mixing would have been necessary.

Read the post. Shotokan was a Japanese form of karate that removed most if not all of the grappling. Otsuka reintroduced the grappling component after studying with Okinawan masters. He just put back into his karate what was already in traditional karate. To me Japanese karate in the main may be classified as traditional but not in the sense of being the same as the original, but perhaps that's a little deep for you.

 

[K-man]

In the beginning was karate, then there were different styles then there were those who wished to go back to the one karate and then there are idiots who think they know it all. My son, I will pray that you may gain enlightenment.....or at the very least reading comprehension.

Love it ... absolutely love it.