How can you become a good fighter if self-defense is your goal?

[drop bear]

All honestly, you can probbly find as many people who have success with TKD (what ever org there are many) and find a equal amount who have found it to be useless. Worth noting its usually coloured belts that find it useless and red belts+ that dont. That brings its usual training model into question and can be used as a point for it.

and that is largely anecdotal but, the people who scream its sucess usually sit on a ivory tower of actually knowing all of it and the people who dont find it sucessful usually sit in the colour belts under the ivory tower. Exceptions exist but that seems like a fair rule for my experience in the matter.

You cant really compare the effectiveness of a system by the people who sit at the top of it, at least not in all regards. anyway, this seems off topic to the actual point of the thread.

The people at the top is how you would discern without spending time in the system if the system produces results.

Otherwise you get a very mixed up biased method to determine worth.

I keep showing this Richard Dawkins water divining experiment. Where he shows through blind trials that it doesn't work.

Where people who do it, intuitively believe it does work. They literally cannot be convinced with evidence.

Now this is the accusation falsely aimed at you. That if you are not a water diviner how can you say it doesn't work?

But if it works you should be able to see it by some sort of external method.

And the difference between being an expert in a subject and being able to spot a fantasy is he is studied and is an expert at discerning real from fantasy.

 

[jobo]

You're in the UK. You might be unfamiliar with a trend in the states with"tuning" cars by dropping the suspension, adding a giant spoiler and a bunch of cool stickers. Some put a louder muffler in them. Man, if you don't get the analogy, the answer is just a Google search away.

no im painfully aware of people sticking bits on modest cars so they look like the fast and the furious, we get films here as well.

how ever....... these is also the ''street sleeper trend,'',, that i have indulged in my self of the exact opposite, thats a very ordinary, broken down looking vehicle that goes like billio and may need a wing out of sheer necessity


i had an exmilatary land rover, hand painted lime screen, with a tuned v 8 in it.

it was designed for a top speed of 60 mph, it would hit 120, but that wasn't the fun, it had silly low gearing and weighed next to nothing that mean i could hit 60 in 4 seconds, i used to blow motorbikes of it,, really really annoying BM W sports convertible driver was very easy, as long as i didnt attempt to go round corners,,, no big wing you see

 

[Martial D]

It is your comments that have had zero to do with the topic of the thread thus sidetracking it. You saw a chance to bash something you dislike and jumped on it.
Do you even understand concepts like 'out fighting'? There have been countless matches ended with the hands in WT competition at all levels. I have a standing knockout recorded at the regionals in Indianapolis after a body punch to the ribs. Granted he was beat to hell otherwise but the rib shot is what ended the match. And that is with a hogu on. You may not know that there is barely any hand protection worn in WT, much different from a closed fingered padded glove. Like I said, it is a different ruleset and definitely Not tippy-tap.

As far as training; are you referring to a general TKD program or for specific upper level competition? Two very different things that only slightly overlap. In a comprehensive TKD (any style) program there will be training for striking all body areas. You seem to be blurring a subset of some schools with the overall training of the school itself.
Do you hang out with Dropbear and watch youtube videos? Let me guess, your favorite search is for 'martial art fails' right?

Antiquated? Apparently you do not even know what the word means. They are not on 'par' because the competition uses a different rule set. To imply they are ineffective just shows your ignorance of this style of competition.
You will not pull me into bashing others styles/systems of competition, which seems to be the norm for you and a few others on this forum these days. C'mon man.

I find that the word 'bashing' is often a sort of code word for any sort of honest assessment the one using that word doesn't care for.

 

[drop bear]

no im painfully aware of people sticking bits on modest cars so they look like the fast and the furious, we get films here as well.

how ever....... these is also the ''street sleeper trend,'',, that i have indulged in my self of the exact opposite, thats a very ordinary, broken down looking vehicle that goes like billio and may need a wing out of sheer necessity


i had an exmilatary land rover, hand painted lime screen, with a tuned v 8 in it.

it was designed for a top speed of 60 mph, it would hit 120, but that wasn't the fun, it had silly low gearing and weighed next to nothing that mean i could hit 60 in 4 seconds, i used to blow motorbikes of it,, really really annoying BM W sports convertible driver was very easy, as long as i didnt attempt to go round corners,,, no big wing you see

You realise this concept is not a reflection on you?

Yes you can build an awesome car. But you can also modify a car and make it terrible.

 

[drop bear]

thats probably the truest thing you've ever said, quite possibly the only true thing you've ever said.

you cant measure the effectiveness of a system by the success/ abilities of the very best in that system

but that then is true of combat systems you seem to have developed an admiration for recently

the head instructor can undoubtedly kick ***, if anyone else who studies the system will is some what debatable

You can either see the students progress or you can't though.

 

[jobo]

You realise this concept is not a reflection on you?

Yes you can build an awesome car. But you can also modify a car and make it terrible.

i did make it terrible, it was really really terrible to look at, it woke people for literally miles around, the sound waves out of it used to set off car alarm motion sensors, it was near enough impossible to drive with huge tyres and no power steering and no servo assisted brakes, and bits used to fall of it with a frightening regularity,,, it was however fun in the extreme and very very fast, when it wasn't broke which it frequently was, but spending my Saturdays fixing it was part of the fun

which was its reason for being,,, fun seems to be the bit you want to leave out along with things working extremely well within the limits of its design

 

[drop bear]

i did make it terrible, it was really really terrible to look at, it woke people for literally miles around, the sound waves out of it used to set off car alarms, it was near enough impossible to drive with huge tyres and no power steering and bits used to fall of it with a frightening regularity,,, it was however fun in the extreme and very very fast, when it wasn't broke which it frequently was

which was its reason for being,,, fun seems to be the bit you want to leave out along with things working extremely well within the limits of its design

Yes in self defense fighting. Fun is my priority.

 

[jobo]

Yes in self defense fighting. Fun is my priority.

well your very very odd, to a lot of people the best ma training is the one they enjoy enough to keep attending. the one that may be more effective is of no use if they dont have fun and keep going, not everyone lives in this life and death world you do, some folk just want to kill a couple of hours a week doing something pleasant

telling someone who runs for fun, they would get a lot fitter dragging a sled across the antarctic, is both true and useless information if they have no intent of going to the antarctic

telling me id be better at SD if i did MMA is much the same, I DONT WANT TO

 

[dvcochran]

Now it's contradictory? You guys really can't keep your stories straight.

I don't claim a whole lot. I provide evidence where needed. And my opinions on self defense have been consistent for longer than you've been a member of the forum. There was a guy, Chris Parker, who used to post. I think you'd get along very well with him. He was another guy who considered himself a self defense expert. Same discussions.

What I see is a lot of guys who can't discuss the points so they attack the poster. You make it personal, and because a couple of the poor actors are mods, it just escalates.

I have an idea. Instead if offering me advice and commentary on my rhetorical failings, why not respond to the points in making? Or not respond?

Regarding my qualifications, I think the ideas I discuss are commkn sense and speak for themselves. But I have been involved in training and instructional design for over 2 decades. I've designed and delivered training for new technicians, but most of my time has been spent working with new supervisors and new managers. I train them, and coach them. I've been at it long enough to see folks who I trained as new hires actually move into senior Management. I've designed and managed leadership development programs. I've developed a ton of face to face training, and have also developed online training, and live virtual training using programs like adobe connect. I manage a team of folks responsible for all training and development for 10 states. A big part of the last 15 years had also been training trainers and instructional designers. I don't know everything, but I do know how people learn to do things.

It's funny when you're in the stage of your cycle where I'm saying things that are obvious. That's something I tell my guys from time to time. Training isn't complicated. Tell them what they need to know. Show them what they need to do, and then coach them while they do it.

So, to sum up, I read more than I post around here. The only threads I really post in are off topic threads about fun stuff and threads on the topic of training philosophy like this one. You may disagree, but I think I'm well qualified for both.

And my opinions on self defense have been consistent for longer than you've been a member of the forum.

Ah, I have been waiting for the 'old timer' defense to come up, weak as it is. There are people who have been on here for a long time who are still adolescent, at least in thinking. And that is okay. But seldom do they put up a front that they are something they are not.
I have zero knowledge of the person you mention. Over time, I have heard several names of people from the past. The reason I visit this forum is because of the people on here now and the consistently quality, accurate content. Generally better than the other forums I visit. If you are offended by people who call BS what it is, maybe things have changed here. But I seriously doubt it.

What I see is a lot of guys who can't discuss the points so they attack the poster. You make it personal, and because a couple of the poor actors are mods, it just escalates.

So the centuries of experience from the people on this forum are nothing to your vast experience? Perfect logic.
Your idea of personal is hilarious. You are repeatedly offensive but apparently have put yourself on a throne and assume everyone is going to defer to you wisdom. Again hilarious.

I have an idea. Instead if offering me advice and commentary on my rhetorical failings, why not respond to the points in making? Or not respond?

If you cannot handle simple questions and challenges to your often inaccurate content possibly it is you who should not respond to threads.
Many people have been responding to you. But you keep moving the target. You tend to make knee-jerk, bold claims then start to crawfish when people call you out. As the saying goes 'if you cannot walk the walk.....

Regarding my qualifications, I think the ideas I discuss are commkn sense and speak for themselves. But I have been involved in training and instructional design for over 2 decades. I've designed and delivered training for new technicians, but most of my time has been spent working with new supervisors and new managers. I train them, and coach them. I've been at it long enough to see folks who I trained as new hires actually move into senior Management. I've designed and managed leadership development programs. I've developed a ton of face to face training, and have also developed online training, and live virtual training using programs like adobe connect. I manage a team of folks responsible for all training and development for 10 states. A big part of the last 15 years had also been training trainers and instructional designers. I don't know everything, but I do know how people learn to do things.

So, you are a motivational speaker/trainer? That answers a lot. Supports the saying 'those who can't teach'.

Look, you may be great at what you do. But you are not the only one doing it. None of us are. Surely you understand this. I asked what you do because you come off very shallow in most of your comments. It is pretty easy to see.

My wife and I have owned and operated as many as five businesses (four currently). She has her own law firm. I have/had over 100 direct employees in my control & automation business. I have been wholly responsible for projects in excess of 300M. I was the corporate director of automation for the 16th largest corporation in the world at the time(Masonite) and have worked all over the world. I have met a Lot of 'trainers'. Hell, I have often been one in technical applications and startups. Your comments regarding this ring so loudly of the theory vs. application discussion that has bounced around on this forum for so long.
We have two large cattle and crop operations. I own the real property for two strip malls, both with MA schools and have been active since 1984. I had a great competition career. I went to somewhere north of 200 competitions. I placed gold in my state in the Olympic circuit (USTU, USA TKD; call it what you want) 3 years in a row and medaled at the nationals the same years. I was two matches away from going to the Olympics. I am belted in three styles.
Yada, yada, yada.
Do I have everything figured out? Hell no. But there is more than enough knowledge here to ferret out inaccuracies.
What I am saying is extend the same courtesies to everyone else that you expect from them. It may not fit Your memories of the 'glory day's on this forum but that is no reason to disrespect the people that are here now.

 

[Steve]

Ah, I have been waiting for the 'old timer' defense to come up, weak as it is. There are people who have been on here for a long time who are still adolescent, at least in thinking. And that is okay. But seldom do they put up a front that they are something they are not.
I have zero knowledge of the person you mention. Over time, I have heard several names of people from the past. The reason I visit this forum is because of the people on here now and the consistently quality, accurate content. Generally better than the other forums I visit. If you are offended by people who call BS what it is, maybe things have changed here. But I seriously doubt it.


So the centuries of experience from the people on this forum are nothing to your vast experience? Perfect logic.
Your idea of personal is hilarious. You are repeatedly offensive but apparently have put yourself on a throne and assume everyone is going to defer to you wisdom. Again hilarious.


If you cannot handle simple questions and challenges to your often inaccurate content possibly it is you who should not respond to threads.
Many people have been responding to you. But you keep moving the target. You tend to make knee-jerk, bold claims then start to crawfish when people call you out. As the saying goes 'if you cannot walk the walk.....

So, you are a motivational speaker/trainer? That answers a lot. Supports the saying 'those who can't teach'.

Look, you may be great at what you do. But you are not the only one doing it. None of us are. Surely you understand this. I asked what you do because you come off very shallow in most of your comments. It is pretty easy to see.

My wife and I have owned and operated as many as five businesses (four currently). I have/had over 100 direct employees in my control & automation business. I have been wholly responsible for projects in excess of 300M. I was the corporate director of automation for the 16th largest corporation in the world at the time(Masonite) and have worked all over the world. I have met a Lot of 'trainers'. Hell, I have often been one in technical applications and startups. Your comments regarding this ring so loudly of the theory vs. application discussion that has bounced around here for so long.
We have two large cattle and crop operations. I own the real property for two strip malls with MA schools and have been active since 1984. I had a great competition career. I went to somewhere north of 200 competitions. I placed gold in my state in the Olympic circuit 3 years in a row and medaled at the nationals the same years. I was two matches away from going to the Olympics. Yada, yada, yada.
Do I have everything figured out? Hell no. But there is more than enough knowledge here to ferret out inaccuracies.
What I am saying is extend the same courtesies to everyone else that you expect from them. It may not fit Your memories of the 'glory day's on this forum but that is no reason to disrespect the people that are here now.

Okay, I won't even try to unpack the emotional stew you just threw up on the keyboard above. I'll just address the "those who can't, teach" comment. I think to be qualified to teach something, you have to be competent to do that thing. I teach people to do things I've actually done and did quite well. I'm also a very good instructional designer. That means I help people like you (well, I avoid people like you) design training for their staff. I work with subject matter experts, because I know you can't fake it. You can't teach something you just don't have experience doing.

Now, I'm very familiar with the kinds of trainers you talk about. There are professional "facilitators" out there who teach all kinds of things they aren't competent to teach. Maybe you've just been unlucky in your illustrious career to have never worked with quality trainers or instructional designers. I'm not an expert in many things, but I am an expert in that. So, I mean, you can be dismissive if you like, but, you aren't the expert, sooooo....

 

[skribs]

I find that the word 'bashing' is often a sort of code word for any sort of honest assessment the one using that word doesn't care for.

No, "bashing" is when you think your opinion is an honest assessment and start belittling everyone else because they don't share your opinions.

 

[Martial D]

No, "bashing" is when you think your opinion is an honest assessment and start belittling everyone else because they don't share your opinions.

QED

 

[jobo]

Ah, I have been waiting for the 'old timer' defense to come up, weak as it is. There are people who have been on here for a long time who are still adolescent, at least in thinking. And that is okay. But seldom do they put up a front that they are something they are not.
I have zero knowledge of the person you mention. Over time, I have heard several names of people from the past. The reason I visit this forum is because of the people on here now and the consistently quality, accurate content. Generally better than the other forums I visit. If you are offended by people who call BS what it is, maybe things have changed here. But I seriously doubt it.


So the centuries of experience from the people on this forum are nothing to your vast experience? Perfect logic.
Your idea of personal is hilarious. You are repeatedly offensive but apparently have put yourself on a throne and assume everyone is going to defer to you wisdom. Again hilarious.


If you cannot handle simple questions and challenges to your often inaccurate content possibly it is you who should not respond to threads.
Many people have been responding to you. But you keep moving the target. You tend to make knee-jerk, bold claims then start to crawfish when people call you out. As the saying goes 'if you cannot walk the walk.....

So, you are a motivational speaker/trainer? That answers a lot. Supports the saying 'those who can't teach'.

Look, you may be great at what you do. But you are not the only one doing it. None of us are. Surely you understand this. I asked what you do because you come off very shallow in most of your comments. It is pretty easy to see.

My wife and I have owned and operated as many as five businesses (four currently). She has her own law firm. I have/had over 100 direct employees in my control & automation business. I have been wholly responsible for projects in excess of 300M. I was the corporate director of automation for the 16th largest corporation in the world at the time(Masonite) and have worked all over the world. I have met a Lot of 'trainers'. Hell, I have often been one in technical applications and startups. Your comments regarding this ring so loudly of the theory vs. application discussion that has bounced around on this forum for so long.
We have two large cattle and crop operations. I own the real property for two strip malls, both with MA schools and have been active since 1984. I had a great competition career. I went to somewhere north of 200 competitions. I placed gold in my state in the Olympic circuit (USTU, USA TKD; call it what you want) 3 years in a row and medaled at the nationals the same years. I was two matches away from going to the Olympics. I am belted in three styles.
Yada, yada, yada.
Do I have everything figured out? Hell no. But there is more than enough knowledge here to ferret out inaccuracies.
What I am saying is extend the same courtesies to everyone else that you expect from them. It may not fit Your memories of the 'glory day's on this forum but that is no reason to disrespect the people that are here now.

im just wondering how many times a month you feel the need to write a long post telling everyone how rich/ successful you are ? and in very specific terms what this has to do with ma..

it does appear to be a constant theme of self justification no matter what subject is being discussed

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What I see is a lot of guys who can't discuss the points so they attack the poster. You make it personal, and because a couple of the poor actors are mods, it just escalates.

I'm not 100% sure which mods you are referring to (although based on your posts I can make some guesses), but just want to interject on this point. Us mods, and the admins, have to follow the same rules as everyone else. The mods can receive warnings, points and bans the same as anyone else. And if a particular mod is involved in a case, they do not interject with their opinion on who deserves a warning/point/ban, instead they state "involved". I'm not sure if this is how it has always been, but it's been this way since I became a mod 1.5 years ago.

 

[dvcochran]

im just wondering how many times a month you feel the need to write a long post telling everyone how rich/ successful you are ? and in very specific terms what this has to do with ma..

it does appear to be a constant theme of self justification

I do not mean to offend. I only pulled that out to prove a point to someone.
Like I said in the post, there is a ton of knowledge on this forum. No one person should laud themselves as the sole source of information. Just a foolish thing to do.
FWIW, I did not inherit anything we own. We have busted out asses to get where we are. So yes, I do get thin pretty quick with paper tigers.

In specific terms, the reason for the post was to call out BS. What good is a forum like this if it is nothing but misinformation? We all do this from time to time don't we?
There has been an extended narrative claiming the term 'self defense' automatically means false of a poor instructor or school. After a lot of debate the general theme mellowed and a more commensurate viewpoint was expressed. One poster in particular continued to be very accusatory yet expressed offense when people called them out even though they were/are doing the same to others.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

You can either see the students progress or you can't though.

Now this is slightly off topic, but in that sort of area i have seen two blocs. People arent perfect thus dont all respond the same to training and also the instructor is at fault. It seems to be when its convient for either party and becomes quite partisan. ie its the students fault is usually the cry of a mc dojo when somone doesnt respond well to their teachings as opposed to assesing if its the person, the teaching or a mix.

Obviously the reality is, not everyone responds the same way to every form of teaching or every skill. There is some objectivity in this though.


Thats just another observation i have found.

 

[Headhunter]

Now this is slightly off topic, but in that sort of area i have seen two blocs. People arent perfect thus dont all respond the same to training and also the instructor is at fault. It seems to be when its convient for either party and becomes quite partisan. ie its the students fault is usually the cry of a mc dojo when somone doesnt respond well to their teachings as opposed to assesing if its the person, the teaching or a mix.

Obviously the reality is, not everyone responds the same way to every form of teaching or every skill. There is some objectivity in this though.


Thats just another observation i have found.

Observed from where?

 

[jobo]

I do not mean to offend. I only pulled that out to prove a point to someone.
Like I said in the post, there is a ton of knowledge on this forum. No one person should laud themselves as the sole source of information. Just a foolish thing to do.
FWIW, I did not inherit anything we own. We have busted out asses to get where we are. So yes, I do get thin pretty quick with paper tigers.

In specific terms, the reason for the post was to call out BS. What good is a forum like this if it is nothing but misinformation? We all do this from time to time don't we?
There has been an extended narrative claiming the term 'self defense' automatically means false of a poor instructor or school. After a lot of debate the general theme mellowed and a more commensurate viewpoint was expressed. One poster in particular continued to be very accusatory yet expressed offense when people called them out even though they were/are doing the same to others.

im by no means offended, more amused it, just seems to be a variation of Goodwin law, where any discussion eventually ends up with the Nazis, but in this case its how rich/successful you are

your martial arts career is indeed extremely impressive, but you mention this far less than your acquisition of wealth, though in most discussions its far more pertinent

 

[Steve]

I do not mean to offend. I only pulled that out to prove a point to someone.
Like I said in the post, there is a ton of knowledge on this forum. No one person should laud themselves as the sole source of information. Just a foolish thing to do.
FWIW, I did not inherit anything we own. We have busted out asses to get where we are. So yes, I do get thin pretty quick with paper tigers.

In specific terms, the reason for the post was to call out BS. What good is a forum like this if it is nothing but misinformation? We all do this from time to time don't we?
There has been an extended narrative claiming the term 'self defense' automatically means false of a poor instructor or school. After a lot of debate the general theme mellowed and a more commensurate viewpoint was expressed. One poster in particular continued to be very accusatory yet expressed offense when people called them out even though they were/are doing the same to others.

Oh, jesus christ. You literally can't post on topic. I can't remember what your position is, much less whether I agree or disagree with you, it's been so long since you've posted anything constructive.

You asked a question. Foolishly, I answered you. You then posted your credentials, which, frankly, I could give two squats about. I have never questioned them, and I don't see how they're remotely relevant.

It's so predictable. You say I'm all over the place and inconsistent. I say I've been consistent for years, longer than you've been a part of the forum. You then say I'm pulling some kind of card. You ask me for my credentials, I post them, you ridicule them.

My theory is still that your feelings where hurt at some point. I think you were embarrassed by being so obtuse earlier in another thread, where you were angrily agreeing with me, but thinking you weren't. It's clear you have quite the big head, and for a guy with an ego like yours, being embarrassed must be a hard thing to swallow.

So, you needle me like a child post after post. It's partly my fault, I'll grant you that. I knew I shouldn't answer your question. I actually had you on ignore for a few days, but I really hate doing that to anyone, so I took you off. You don't post in good faith. Every question you ask is an obvious trap, and this question was clearly loaded. But if I didn't, you'd have twisted that around, too.

But, you know, at the end of the day, I actually do the things I teach. I'm a subject matter expert on everything I train people to do. And i'm a subject matter expert on the profession of creating training. And I'm a subject matter expert on teaching other people to design and develop training. I've coached employees, managed employees, supervised managers. And at the end of the day, I know people can apply what I teach them, because I see them develop those skills in the real world. I can see new supervisors become a better supervisor through the performance of their teams. That's how it works for everything except self defense.

I've also seen a lot of bad trainers and facilitators. Sounds like you have, too. The self defense phenomenon isn't unique to self defense. People sell management training (all training, but a lot of management training) all the time who aren't qualified. Guys who have never managed a team, teaching other people how to do that. Doesn't work there, either.

 

[jobo]

Oh, jesus christ. You literally can't post on topic. I can't remember what your position is, much less whether I agree or disagree with you, it's been so long since you've posted anything constructive.

You asked a question. Foolishly, I answered you. You then posted your credentials, which, frankly, I could give two squats about. I have never questioned them, and I don't see how they're remotely relevant.

It's so predictable. You say I'm all over the place and inconsistent. I say I've been consistent for years, longer than you've been a part of the forum. You then say I'm pulling some kind of card. You ask me for my credentials, I post them, you ridicule them.

My theory is still that your feelings where hurt at some point. I think you were embarrassed by being so obtuse earlier in another thread, where you were angrily agreeing with me, but thinking you weren't. It's clear you have quite the big head, and for a guy with an ego like yours, being embarrassed must be a hard thing to swallow.

So, you needle me like a child post after post. It's partly my fault, I'll grant you that. I knew I shouldn't answer your question. I actually had you on ignore for a few days, but I really hate doing that to anyone, so I took you off. You don't post in good faith. Every question you ask is an obvious trap, and this question was clearly loaded. But if I didn't, you'd have twisted that around, too.

But, you know, at the end of the day, I actually do the things I teach. I'm a subject matter expert on everything I train people to do. And i'm a subject matter expert on the profession of creating training. And I'm a subject matter expert on teaching other people to design and develop training. I've coached employees, managed employees, supervised managers. And at the end of the day, I know people can apply what I teach them, because I see them develop those skills in the real world. I can see new supervisors become a better supervisor through the performance of their teams. That's how it works for everything except self defense.

I've also seen a lot of bad trainers and facilitators. Sounds like you have, too. The self defense phenomenon isn't unique to self defense. People sell management training (all training, but a lot of management training) all the time who aren't qualified. Guys who have never managed a team, teaching other people how to do that. Doesn't work there, either.

if we could drop the private war of words going on, there are some interesting points here

steve

your using the term expert like it has some universal definition, clearly there are people in the world who most people could agree are experts, these general have a professorship or some such,

for everyones elves its a comparative term, you may have greater expertise than someone else, but that doesnt make you an expert, unless your the one with a singular level of expertise/ qualification. there can only really be a very small number of experts in any field and as they seldom agree on anything it throws the whole system of experts into doubt

for instance i was classed as an ''expert witness'' in my chosen field, however the other side of any court case would find another expert who disagreed with me. we both couldn't be ''experts'' or there would be only one opinion

even more, im skilled at adult training( employee training and development), i have a post grad degree in such, , im not sure that makes me an expert just proficient, the guy who wrote the book i revised from is the expert

however using such expertise as i had in training i found no difficulty in training people in subjects i was far from an expert in, just as long as i a) understood the material i was teaching and b) knew more than the people who i was teaching,,, teaching fire safety when someone from the fire brigade has turned up can be problematic, you immediately bow to there expertise and ask them to do the presentation, they general cant resist

though convincing people who know more than you, that they know less is a really really valuable expertise to develop and may quite possibly be the only thing in the world i am indeed an expert on