drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Not for me. I stop when a person can no longer defend themselves or are no longer a threat.
How do you test your MA skill without using the sport format?
- Thread starter Kung Fu Wang
- Start date
Not for me. I stop when a person can no longer defend themselves or are no longer a threat.
Sure, but what if they don't stop when you can no longer defend yourself or are no longer a threat?
I don't think it's unreasonable to consider the referee as a safety feature.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I have.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
So are seat belts. But you are not driving more realistically without them.
If you are in a point you need a ref to help you out. You messed up a long time ago.
I always did as well. My very first kickboxing match, I was about 26 years old. The poor kid I was to fight was eighteen, his first kickboxing match as well. And he was scared shipless.
It was a three rounder - which was what they typically carded new guys with. By halfway through the second round, the kid was spent. I kept looking to the ref to stop it. I finally threw a slow motion wheel kick and stopped it just before his nose and looked at the ref. He stopped the fight.
Unfortunately, almost everyone I knew drove up to New Hampshire to watch the fight. We all went back to a bar in Boston that my buddy owned. The guys started toasting me, this way - "next week Buka will be fighting a young girl! And the week after a blind kid! And after that a kid in a crib!"
Oh, they didn't let up.
jayoliver00
Black Belt
He said, "I stop when a person can no longer defend themselves or are no longer a threat", so he's speaking from the position of being dominant & in control of the situation. He doesn't need a Ref as he himself is ceasing from further hurting whomever he's fighting.
If it's the other way around, then that's too bad for him; he can get KTFO or even die. But it wasn't like he's going to not fight with everything he's got from the beginning to end; whether it be in the cage or the street.
It's not like a Sports Fighter is going to punch the other guy in the face a little lighter in the cage b/c the streets is where the real deal happens & the cage isn't real. A simple rear naked choke is a death move. Nothing spectacular about killing someone an RNC, just hold it for an extra 20-90 seconds after they pass out (5-10 for an average Blue belt). The early UFC's had no disqualifying rules; so you could've done anything you wanted, to win.
Graywalker
Brown Belt
That's good, but there is no real danger when a ref is involved.
Most sane people can stop themselves, it would be abnormal, if a person could not.
Graywalker
Brown Belt
No, no they are not, what they do know...is that there is no real danger when they fight.
If you have a ref, you are absolutely not in any real danger. Unless, and this is rare, you have an idiot ref.
Your brain knows you are safe, when there is a ref involved.
While it's true that competitors aren't actually trying to murder each other, it's incorrect to say there is no real danger when a ref is involved. The danger is, assuredly, greatly reduced. But it is by no means eliminated. That's like saying there is no real danger driving a car at 200MPH around a track, as long as you wear your seat belt.
Graywalker
Brown Belt
I would disagree. If there is someone there to stop the fight, you are not concerned, as much, with losing your life. The ref insures that a life will not be lost. Without a ref, you do not have a cushion of safety surrounding your life.
This is why, I think sport, does not prepare you for reality. In the back of your mind, you know even while getting smacked around...the person betting the snot out if you, will be stopped from killing you.
That luxury does not exist in life, it is up to you and you alone in getting your butt out of danger.
I don't see why you would...
These two statements are contradictory. In the first one, you agree with me, immediately after saying you disagree. And the latter one is just plain wrong. The ref reduces the risk; they do not by any means eliminate it.
I mean, you do understand that people are killed or crippled by sports on a regular basis, yes?
MadMartigan
Blue Belt
True enough. While training accidents happen, they are accidents. The danger was intended to be minimized.
All of them.
If it's not worth killing or dying for; then you shouldn't be fighting at all.
Graywalker
Brown Belt
Then you should have posted my agreement as well.
Graywalker
Brown Belt
It's unfortunate that a person can not ignore moderators.
I did. But I can quote it again. Do you really not understand the difference between eliminating risk and reducing it? Because right there, in your own words, you're agreeing that a ref reduces risk. They do not eliminate it.
paitingman
Brown Belt
I am comforted by the presence of a ref or even just an association of mine standing by.
But I also sometimes consciously confront the reality that the next punch may be one that kills me.
Or just an unlucky, casual roll ends up tearing my knee
Ref or not, I'm not free from all danger (ever, really....)
That reality becomes so magnified as the level of competition increases, which is why I have a horrified respect for many professional athletes.
I am most definitely free from the danger being intentionally murdered while the ref is there.
But I also sometimes consciously confront the reality that the next punch may be one that kills me.
Or just an unlucky, casual roll ends up tearing my knee
Ref or not, I'm not free from all danger (ever, really....)
That reality becomes so magnified as the level of competition increases, which is why I have a horrified respect for many professional athletes.
I am most definitely free from the danger being intentionally murdered while the ref is there.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Is there supposed to be real danger though?
How do you create that in training?
This drill here comes to mind.
Does the real danger make this any more applicable. Or is it just dumb.
jayoliver00
Black Belt
How is a rear naked choke not trying to kill someone?
You still don't get it. It's still the same intensity and same techniques.
jayoliver00
Black Belt
sounds like a movie. i've fought plenty of times in the streets for fun.
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