Ground Fighting

[Hanzou]

LOL, I've actually forgotten what the question was.

I posted the video to showcase how quickly things can go south in an altercation. In that video, you saw how a silly scrap quickly turned into a possibly life-ending fight.

On the flip side, the guy who dominated the ground quickly and decisively ended the confrontation.

The point is, the ground is a very important combat range. People really should learn it, and respect it.

Steve and Kung Fu Wang's posts were excellent.

 

[jezr74]

I posted the video to showcase how quickly things can go south in an altercation. In that video, you saw how a silly scrap quickly turned into a possibly life-ending fight.

On the flip side, the guy who dominated the ground quickly and decisively ended the confrontation.

The point is, the ground is a very important combat range. People really should learn it, and respect it.

Steve and Kung Fu Wang's posts were excellent.

I think MAist generally do understand that. I really enjoy yusul sparing, it gives me a reality check with how to manage people's body weight and forces me to work on principles rather than technique in some instances. In fact we have a number of moves that are for keeping the opponent from getting up and forcing them back down in some situations. I guess if it's stand-up, on the ground, long short... it's all about being in control and fluid in all ranges.

 

[Argus]

I posted the video to showcase how quickly things can go south in an altercation. In that video, you saw how a silly scrap quickly turned into a possibly life-ending fight.

On the flip side, the guy who dominated the ground quickly and decisively ended the confrontation.

The point is, the ground is a very important combat range. People really should learn it, and respect it.

Steve and Kung Fu Wang's posts were excellent.

I don't think anyone even argues that. Being able to at least handle yourself on the ground is a good skill for any martial artist, even if it's not your focus. That's a pretty universally accepted sentiment.

You seem to be overly zealous about defending BJJ, though. I can't see why you failed to recognized any of Hong Kong Pooey's points. It just comes off as having an agenda. I could make a similar thread about how BJJ guys need to respect stand-up arts more, and not think that their art is the end-all-be-all, and you might get how this thread comes off.

 

[Steve]

I could make a similar thread about how BJJ guys need to respect stand-up arts more, and not think that their art is the end-all-be-all, and you might get how this thread comes off.

You are probably well meaning, but this is so funny I snorted beer out my nose! Look at any stand up thread that focuses on anti grappling or has a title something like "how to remain standing." Lots of guys who don't know what they're talking about gleefully sharing their ignorance. It's kind of a thing.



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[Hanzou]

I don't think anyone even argues that. Being able to at least handle yourself on the ground is a good skill for any martial artist, even if it's not your focus. That's a pretty universally accepted sentiment.

You seem to be overly zealous about defending BJJ, though. I can't see why you failed to recognized any of Hong Kong Pooey's points. It just comes off as having an agenda. I could make a similar thread about how BJJ guys need to respect stand-up arts more, and not think that their art is the end-all-be-all, and you might get how this thread comes off.

I recongized Pooey's point just fine. He was simply too broad in the application of that point. The reason the boxer was able to fend off multiple attackers wasn't because he was trained to fight multiple attackers, or simply because he was trained in stand up, it was because he was trained to fight period. Boxers don't train to fight multiple attackers, they train completely for one opponent. As I stated before; You can train for multiple opponents all you want, but if you're fighting like this;

You're not going to survive a fight against one meathead, much less several coming at you at once.

 

[Buka]

I just watched that vid. Makes me kind of proud to have a sense of humor.

 

[jezr74]

They were wicked fast.

 

[donnaTKD]

Just in case anyone wants to see the entire video. For what it's worth, the kid wins that match by triangle choke in less than 1 minute. A pretty effective strategy for that rule set. As I mentioned earlier, it works because in a sub grappling match, the guy who is standing MUST engage or he risks penalties and eventually DQ.

If the goal is to win a medal in a tournament, this worked. As a strategy, I think we can all agree that it is a bad one outside of a tournament.

just a little bit of a bad idea ????? i'd say that you'd get killed very easily

 

[Steve]

just a little bit of a bad idea ????? i'd say that you'd get killed very easily

Who said "little bit?" I didn't qualify my statement in that way. You did.


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[donnaTKD]

yeah but you left your statement open for it though and i jsut filled in the blanks that we were all thinking anyways.

it might work in that arena - fair enough - but try that in the real world and you get hammered no doubt about it --- it is a little bit of a bad idea.

 

[Hanzou]

yeah but you left your statement open for it though and i jsut filled in the blanks that we were all thinking anyways.

it might work in that arena - fair enough - but try that in the real world and you get hammered no doubt about it --- it is a little bit of a bad idea.

The point is that no one would try that in the "real world". Bjj stylists are smart enough to know the difference between what works in the competition arena, and what would work in a self defense situation.

What you should be thinking about is if that guy can slap on a choke from upside down in under a minute against an equally skilled grappler, imagine what he can do to someone he's actually trying to hurt who doesn't know how to defend against any of the holds or submissions of Bjj.

 

[jezr74]

The point is that no one would try that in the "real world". Bjj stylists are smart enough to know the difference between what works in the competition arena, and what would work in a self defense situation.

What you should be thinking about is if that guy can slap on a choke from upside down in under a minute against an equally skilled grappler, imagine what he can do to someone he's actually trying to hurt who doesn't know how to defend against any of the holds or submissions of Bjj.

It's not beyond someone to do that IRL seen it a few times.

I've also seen offense used as a defense as DonnaTKD has indicated, many times as well.

You need awareness in all these situations, like any fight if you can size up and predict their fighting style and approach you can prepare much better.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

It's not beyond someone to do that IRL seen it a few times.

You've seen someone fight from inverted guard in real life? Really?

 

[jezr74]

Plenty of times, I'm surprised you don't think so either. In almost the exact way it unfolds in the clip.

It is normally from a failed attempt like in the clip, but the difference being the guy on the ground is in defense.

 

[jezr74]

Just in case anyone wants to see the entire video. For what it's worth, the kid wins that match by triangle choke in less than 1 minute. A pretty effective strategy for that rule set. As I mentioned earlier, it works because in a sub grappling match, the guy who is standing MUST engage or he risks penalties and eventually DQ.

If the goal is to win a medal in a tournament, this worked. As a strategy, I think we can all agree that it is a bad one outside of a tournament.

What would be the best method to get around this from the standing kids point of view. I'm thinking he felt pressured into the position from the ref, what approach should he have taken?

 

[Steve]

yeah but you left your statement open for it though and i jsut filled in the blanks that we were all thinking anyways.

it might work in that arena - fair enough - but try that in the real world and you get hammered no doubt about it --- it is a little bit of a bad idea.

I left no blanks to fill in. I made a simple, clear statement.

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[Steve]

What would be the best method to get around this from the standing kids point of view. I'm thinking he felt pressured into the position from the ref, what approach should he have taken?

In a tournament? If not, a boot to the head seems like as good a strategy as any.

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[jezr74]

In a tournament? If not, a boot to the head seems like as good a strategy as any.

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Yep. In a tournament. The kid on the ground looked pretty agile.

 

[Hanzou]

It's not beyond someone to do that IRL seen it a few times.

I've also seen offense used as a defense as DonnaTKD has indicated, many times as well.

You need awareness in all these situations, like any fight if you can size up and predict their fighting style and approach you can prepare much better.

I've seen this clip trotted around as an example of how a Bjj exponent would fight in a given situation, and it's nonsense. A better example would be how the Gracies or Pedro Sauer fight. In those examples, the Bjj exponent is striking to set up a clinch and then a takedown. The ending position is almost always either in mounted, or rear mounted position, setting up ground and pound, or the RNC. Occasionally you'll see Guard, but that's usually when they fight against experienced grapplers, and need to tire them out.

I find it bizarre that you've seen the inverted Guard a "few times" in a SD situation when its pretty rare even in competition where the rules protect you from getting jacked up in that position. You don't even see it in the UFC, because the guy doing it like that would get punted like a football.

 

[Steve]

Yep. In a tournament. The kid on the ground looked pretty agile.

Really he's looking fir the triangle or possibly the kneebar. There are different ways to manage it. I tend to not stand, instead work low fir north south and then make him regret trying that crap on me. Depends in how good he is. Sometimes it's best to hang back, wait fur him to spin fir the triangle and use that as an opportunity to pass.


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