Gift of Destruction

[Michael Billings]

I have had to rationalize the types of attack that can occur with the "handshake". As I posted before:

The hand crusher
The guy pulling you in
The guy pulling you in with a off hand punch
The guy pulling you in to a knee
The guy pushing you back

Going to the side away from other attackers is also covered with the variaty of handshake techniques - controlling and using the opponent's body as a barracade.

Not to mention the JKD variation from Dan Inosanto (circa 1962) for Gift in Return when you utilize a throw as you pass the hand back through the legs.

Some people like 'em, some don't ... I used to not like them until I had known them about 15 years. Now, somehow, my mind caught up with my body. I have always been able to execute them, but now I see clear purpose in learning the handshake techniques in the ideal phase.

Come on guys, they can be fun when you throw a couple of attackers in there, while one guy is holding your hand.

Oss,
-Michael

 

[kenpo3631]

Depending on the angle of delivery of the knee strike you may not get to finish the technique at all. I did this technique on someone on the street and when I hit him with the knee, I hit him directly (on the 12/6 line) driving his pelvis back and sending him about foot and a half backwards! Talking with my instructor one day, he told me that once he had delivered the knee and his attacker was too close, so the knee came straight up and lifted the attacker onto his toes! Just some food for thought ~ for every action there is a reaction, adjust fire! fire for effect!...:rofl: :asian:

 

[Chronuss]

Originally posted by Blindside
My thoughts on this technique? LOL It is the biggest over-reaction to a handshake I can imagine.

So in what scenario do you feel justified to use this?

over-reaction, eh...? hmm...

Scenario:

You're a college student of the female persausion, say 5'5", 5'6", 125-140 pounds. You're attending a frat party for some unknown reason (and why do YOU think a college female would do that...:rofl: ). You happen to meet a frat guy that's had one-too-many Corona Extras. He extends his hand in a friendly-get-to-know-you handshake and you return the gesture...but he doesn't let go and insists you go with him upstairs to a more private area. You, being the, dainty female that are, refuse the invitation, yet he still doesn't let go. You try asking nicely one more time, yet, still doesn't let go. BAM. Technique executed and drunk dumbass makes a resounding thud on floor.

Was that too much over reaction?

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by Chronuss
Technique executed and drunk dumbass makes a resounding thud on floor.

Was that too much over reaction?

Not in my book of rules!!!

 

[Handsword]

Originally posted by Blindside

So in what scenario do you feel justified to use this?

A scenario in which to use this technique would be one of multiple attackers. Two people who seem to know you approach and one extends his hand which you politely accept. As you are shaking hands you note a change in facial expression as the grip tightens and the other person loads up a haymaker.

Of course, Gift of Destruction would only be a applicable technique for this scenario if the 2nd attacker was standing between 12 and 3 o'clock so that you can use the 1st attacker as a shield/weapon.

However, that said, I have removed the 4 Gift techniques from our syllabus to be taught togther as a non-syllabus requirement (illustrating the 4 basic directions of movement among other things). These have been replaced with different techniques that deal with more common ideal attacks.

For Gift of Destruction, I feel that the main physical element of this technique (hyperextending and then craning the arm at the elbow) is covered by other techniques around the same belt level (eg. Glancing Salute and Snapping Twig).

Just my opinion and I'm open to opinion/suggestion/correction.

 

[Doc]

For Gift of Destruction, I feel that the main physical element of this technique (hyperextending and then craning the arm at the elbow) is covered by other techniques around the same belt level (eg. Glancing Salute and Snapping Twig).

You must be careful of "removing" material based on your understanding of what you think it does and teaches. Especially if you are not aware of additionally levels of the technique that may take you other places and introduced higher concepts.

 

[GaryM]

Hi Guys. I would like to give you a scenaio. Someone intends to do you harm. You percieve this. Lets just say there's two or three guys and you realize that they have cut you out of the herd and are pretty much about ready to do you great harm. Who knows why, money, thrills, revenge whatever. The lead jerk offers his hand, "hey, its cool bro, we aren't looking for trouble". If you refuse then the 'justification' is there for belligerence on thier part so normally the victim will comply against thier better judgment and shake hands at which time the sucker punch and beating will commence. Unless of course you decide at this time to fearfully reach out and grasp his hand and suddenly explode into the technique, which will remove one third of the problem (in the case of three attackers) I consider this pretty much an offensive technique. As a defensive technique where the attacker pulls in then the part about straightening the arm and hyperextending should be forgotten. When I perform this technique I use a loose 'slapping' grab just above the elbow which shocks th 11 (triple heater 11) having the intent of using the arm to pull and simueltaneous I 'hop' forward with the knee. The fact that he's pulling in just helps me (borrowed force) .Also if you turn to a left neutral as you do the inward elbow your knee that is married to the inside of his right leg will buckle the knee outward and the move becomes a strike down. (Like a take down ) Here's one that's "in house". Very easy and I really think you will like it, we call it gift of agony. As he squeezes your hand step to 11:00 with your right foot. FORGET ABOUT YOUR ARM If you try to power this technique it doesn't work near as well. Immediatly pivot counterclockwise 180 into a neutral bow facing 6:00. Let your hand and arm that he is holding go behind your back like you are in a hammer lock. This puts him into a very painful wristlock and the position of his body will definantly give you that warm fuzzy fealing . Really! Gary

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by GaryM
Hi Guys. I would like to give you a scenaio. Someone intends to do you harm. You percieve this. Lets just say there's two or three guys and you realize that they have cut you out of the herd and are pretty much about ready to do you great harm. Who knows why, money, thrills, revenge whatever. The lead jerk offers his hand, "hey, its cool bro, we aren't looking for trouble". If you refuse then the 'justification' is there for belligerence on thier part so normally the victim will comply against thier better judgment and shake hands at which time the sucker punch and beating will commence. Unless of course you decide at this time to fearfully reach out and grasp his hand and suddenly explode into the technique, which will remove one third of the problem (in the case of three attackers) I consider this pretty much an offensive technique. As a defensive technique where the attacker pulls in then the part about straightening the arm and hyperextending should be forgotten. When I perform this technique I use a loose 'slapping' grab just above the elbow which shocks th 11 (triple heater 11) having the intent of using the arm to pull and simueltaneous I 'hop' forward with the knee. The fact that he's pulling in just helps me (borrowed force) .Also if you turn to a left neutral as you do the inward elbow your knee that is married to the inside of his right leg will buckle the knee outward and the move becomes a strike down. (Like a take down ) Here's one that's "in house". Very easy and I really think you will like it, we call it gift of agony. As he squeezes your hand step to 11:00 with your right foot. FORGET ABOUT YOUR ARM If you try to power this technique it doesn't work near as well. Immediatly pivot counterclockwise 180 into a neutral bow facing 6:00. Let your hand and arm that he is holding go behind your back like you are in a hammer lock. This puts him into a very painful wristlock and the position of his body will definantly give you that warm fuzzy fealing . Really! Gary

No way.

 

[GaryM]

Originally posted by Doc
No way.

Doc, unless I have proven a technique I won't teach it. I call this technique a 'party favor' because it works so well , is extreamly painful, makes the jerk look like a fool, however stopping at the point of the 180 degree turn usually causes no damage. I know it sounds weird and like you would be vunerable, but you just have to try it to see the beauty of the technique. My daughter is 110 lbs and damn near broke her 180 lb boyfriend's arm in class. Coincidentally she told him what she was going to do and he actually said "no way". I s**t thee not! Well, goodnight all. Gary

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by GaryM
Doc, unless I have proven a technique I won't teach it. I call this technique a 'party favor' because it works so well , is extreamly painful, makes the jerk look like a fool, however stopping at the point of the 180 degree turn usually causes no damage. I know it sounds weird and like you would be vunerable, but you just have to try it to see the beauty of the technique. My daughter is 110 lbs and damn near broke her 180 lb boyfriend's arm in class. Coincidentally she told him what she was going to do and he actually said "no way". I s**t thee not! Well, goodnight all. Gary

Not based on your description.

 

[kenmpoka]

Here's one that's "in house". Very easy and I really think you will like it, we call it gift of agony. As he squeezes your hand step to 11:00 with your right foot. FORGET ABOUT YOUR ARM If you try to power this technique it doesn't work near as well. Immediatly pivot counterclockwise 180 into a neutral bow facing 6:00. Let your hand and arm that he is holding go behind your back like you are in a hammer lock. This puts him into a very painful wristlock and the position of his body will definantly give you that warm fuzzy fealing . Really! Gary [/B]

This an old Daito Ryu Jujutsu Technique.Though it does lock your wrist momentarely, you need to follow through with another spin and regrab his wrist with your left to either do a wrist throw or a wrist lock, otherwise the opponent can undo the lock if left in the first position. I have been in receiving end of this tek put on me by my Aikido teacher and it does hurt a bit specially if your not flexible in the wrist.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by kenmpoka
This an old Daito Ryu Jujutsu Technique.Though it does lock your wrist momentarely, you need to follow through with another spin and regrab his wrist with your left to either do a wrist throw or a wrist lock, otherwise the opponent can undo the lock if left in the first position. I have been in receiving end of this tek put on me by my Aikido teacher and it does hurt a bit specially if your not flexible in the wrist.

Thanks P.T. the descriptions he was using were confusing. I know what he means now, however I would never teach this technique. The counter is too easy and instinctual. Further it makes no sense to turn your back on an opponent when he only controls one hand.

Additionally it is a pain compliant technique which is not a good thing. And to stretch it a bit, what prevents the use of his other hand, which may or may not be empty. Nope. This ones just as likely to get you in trouble as the attacker.

I had a gentleman in a demo I did for a group of DanZan Ryu Jiu-jitsu practitioners share this one with me. He was a 9th degree, Harold Something. Anyway, as soon as he stepped I pushed forward on his hand to control his depth and raised his hand to my shoulder height. when he attempted to spin I heel palmed him in the back on his left shoulder blade, raised his arm further and stepped underneath with my right foot bringing his hand and arm over my head. Then I pivoted back toward where I started counterclockwise raising his hand into a wristlock forcing him up on his toes with his elbow pointing straight up. Not what I would do but I was proving a point to him. That was the day I broke down everything they showed me and countered it. There were two 10ths in attendance who were really impressed. A married couple name Dominic and Helen Corolo, as well as several 9ths and 8ths. It was a special clinic for ATAMA and they awarded me my 9th that night. Bernie Weiss from AFISK (American Federation of Independent Shotokan/Okinawa Karate-do) , Ed Hamile from West Coast Shotokan, Takayuki Kubota, Ed Parker Jr. and a bunch of other folks were there.

 

[kenmpoka]

Originally posted by Doc
Thanks P.T. the descriptions he was using were confusing. I know what he means now, however I would never teach this technique. The counter is too easy and instinctual. Further it makes no sense to turn your back on an opponent when he only controls one hand.

Additionally it is a pain compliant technique which is not a good thing. And to stretch it a bit, what prevents the use of his other hand, which may or may not be empty. Nope. This ones just as likely to get you in trouble as the attacker.

I had a gentleman in a demo I did for a group of DanZan Ryu Jiu-jitsu practitioners share this one with me. He was a 9th degree, Harold Something. Anyway, as soon as he stepped I pushed forward on his hand to control his depth and raised his hand to my shoulder height. when he attempted to spin I heel palmed him in the back on his left shoulder blade, raised his arm further and stepped underneath with my right foot bringing his hand and arm over my head. Then I pivoted back toward where I started counterclockwise raising his hand into a wristlock forcing him up on his toes with his elbow pointing straight up.

Yes, I agree. But there is difference fighting with a bully and an exprienced martial artist such as yourself. The tek would work if you catch the opponent by surprise or if he is attempting to twist your hand and you go with the flow. like you said there are better ways to deal with this.