OP
OP
Locking Horns
- Thread starter jfarnsworth
- Start date
Thank Doc Chapel, I like the lock out checks, I assume you are striking the nerve plexus on the inside of the knee as you begin to apply the pressure to check and force him back? (just wanted to ask a question since you graciously put it up for us.) I also really like the concept of hooking the arms down to disturb the height zone and bring the head back in for the elbow sandwich. I have been doing the "drop your weight down so you can have your legs under your hips, pushing up with the obscure elbow. Getting them off your back is nicely answered with your initial movements. Then from P.O.A. of the obscure elbow, outward back knuckle to the opponent's right temple or hinge of the mandible (this is executed with a slight outward downward hooking action and the right inward elbow follows with an inward slightly downward diagonal path ... resulting in a horizontal figure 8, or infinity symbol, but flattened. This was an application Mr. Parker actually showed us in a seminar, or after, or somewhere ... but I liked the whipping outward back knuckle (outward shoulder roll) and the inward elbow (augmented by the forward shoulder roll and settling.) BAM.
I understood the timing signature. My "syncopated timing" is not just syncopation, but rather my way of explaining timing variations to my students, or the rhythym changes within the context of a technique. So you would hear me saying da-Da....da, and the sounds of the checks or strikes match my vocalization of the timing pattern, for them to learn. I may display alternative timing patterns based upon the individual opponent's reaction to the previous strike, DA .... DA-da. You of course, have structured the patterns, much more empirically and consistant for your students to learn. You also allow for the only permissible movement of the opponent, to be what you allow it to be, or what you created. My interpretation is a much more fluid situation, where adrenaline and missing targets run rampant.
Once again, I learned something new ... that makes it a good day!
-Michael
Once again, thanks for more grist for the mill. Hopefully this will give others some idea of your analytical nature and insight into how you work.
Oss,
-Michael
I understood the timing signature. My "syncopated timing" is not just syncopation, but rather my way of explaining timing variations to my students, or the rhythym changes within the context of a technique. So you would hear me saying da-Da....da, and the sounds of the checks or strikes match my vocalization of the timing pattern, for them to learn. I may display alternative timing patterns based upon the individual opponent's reaction to the previous strike, DA .... DA-da. You of course, have structured the patterns, much more empirically and consistant for your students to learn. You also allow for the only permissible movement of the opponent, to be what you allow it to be, or what you created. My interpretation is a much more fluid situation, where adrenaline and missing targets run rampant.
Once again, I learned something new ... that makes it a good day!
-Michael
Once again, thanks for more grist for the mill. Hopefully this will give others some idea of your analytical nature and insight into how you work.
Oss,
-Michael
PS - Last night in class we were working an upright grappling, forcing the head down in the context of the grapple. Which is what Doc Chapel describes as the attack in the ideal phase. Much nicer to work than the bent over, here grab me type of attack.
-Michael
-Michael
cdhall
Master Black Belt
I might have said this before, but Mr. Duffy prefers to teach this as your opponent is clinched with you, reaches behind your head and pulls you down into a headlock which is where the technique starts.
But again, I'm not sure we are all talking about the same thing being a "headlock." Jason, can you put up some pics with your camera? You probably have a few different ideas of what type of attack is the Ideal and also what Doc might be driving at.
Please?
cdhall
Master Black Belt
Originally posted by cdhall
I might have said this before, but Mr. Duffy prefers to teach this as your opponent is clinched with you, reaches behind your head and pulls you down into a headlock which is where the technique starts.
But again, I'm not sure we are all talking about the same thing being a "headlock." Jason, can you put up some pics with your camera? You probably have a few different ideas of what type of attack is the Ideal and also what Doc might be driving at.
Please?
I want to say that I don't dispute this still might be an "attempted headlock" based on Doc's last post as you of course want to react as soon as you can. Especially since I'm not sure what the "headlock" is, I will admit that maybe this is still an attempt. But we do wait for them to get you into position and apply some type of hold, we just emphasize that you want to react before they tighten down. This may be unlike the grab in Delayed Sword where they grab you and there is no doubt about this, before you defend. I like Raking Mace as an example of a grab because I always grab and pull them into me and I make sure they know this is the attack, unlike Twin Kimono where they grab and push you away.
I'll shut up until I get the headlock pictures. Maybe I'll go surfing for some. There's a thought. :idea:
cdhall
Master Black Belt
What do you know? First try. Movie clip and everything.
This is hard to see the hold, but I think the victim could turn his head to his right, step in with his left, left handsword and right check and get Locking Horns going here? If he had a chance to step in.
http://www.lesgutches.com/techniques/fhl_shot.htm
cdhall
Master Black Belt
EVEN BETTER
This one
http://www.stanford.edu/group/jujitsu/images/Video/nidan2.mpg
and
http://www.stanford.edu/group/jujitsu/images/Video/nidan3.mpg
You can use the slider to move the clip fwd/back after it loads. I think that on the first one he could have stepped straight in and done Locking Horns and this is pretty much how Mr. Duffy has us do the attack.
However, we would have the attacker standing more in front of the opponent (front headlock), his elbow under the face pointing to the floor, not behind the head point to the sky or the wall, and the left hand braced across the back of the head perhaps to help keep the head down.
Even so, I'm not sure this is the attack Doc is describing.
Man, video clips are cool. I have been wanting to do some myself. I'll let you know when that happens.
:asian:
OP
OP
By what I perceived it would be slightly off. Only because it was done off of their right side and it was furthest away from the camera. We needed a slightly different angle that's all. The attack happened very quickly and once they got to the ground you just couldn't see anything. I would put up my own pictures but it would be on my 10 yr. old son if he's willing. I'm not to sure it can show a whole lot but I can take some anyway viewing them first before showing them off to the world here.
Doc
Senior Master
Work about two cun's above the knee. It doesn't have to be exact in this case, and it will give the effect you seek. The leg will momentarily jerk or spasm under the pressure.
You should have plenty of time and he should not be able to take you down.
OK I see what you mean. Be aware that the word syncopation refers to a specific pattern of timing, so you may consider using a different term, or just say "timing."
Wow! You picked that up? You are right. Nobody has ever caught that before. There in lies one of the "secrets" of Ed Parker. That element of control as opposed to the "helter skleter, rapid fire, hope something works" approach which may have some effectiveness when there is "space" between combatants, but breaks down when he "smothers" or there are "hands on." Ed Parker always put you where he wanted you to be and took your options away from you as he did it.
Fluidity can be a good thing, but it should be a secondary consideration to fuction. How do you determine what the "timing" should be of a technique?
So did I.
That why my students call me a "mad Kenpo Scientist.":asian:
K
Kenpomachine
Guest
I know, when I got hit hard enough I stand back completely straight, like a broom, as we say in spanish.
cdhall
Master Black Belt
Doc,
Does that mean that the guy in the clip is doing a headlock? And is it a front headlock or a side headlock or both?
I just want to know what the attack is. I'm sure there is a good possibility I'm not doing this the way you describe and that if you put me into a front headlock I'd be in trouble. So I just want to know what is the attack. I'll then get into what to do next I guess.
Is a headlock a one-arm hold like in Grip of Death and Grasp of Death? There you are pretty well locked up with a right arm headlock and their left is grabbing their wrist to keep the pressure on. We also turn away from the elbow and toward the "opening" as we step in on this one. The elbow should be behind your head anyway if they are pulling you toward their centerline as in Grip of Death.
How does this headlock attack relate to Locking Horns?
I hope I don't sound disrespectful, I just want to be clear that I don't know what you are describing and also that I would like to know what you are describing. I'll look for another clip later.
Thanks in advance. :asian:
OP
OP
Uh, the wife said no to the headlock thing. She didn't like the looks of it from the get go. I'm sorry but someone else will have to attempt it.
kenpo_cory
Purple Belt
Mr. Chapel,
So what is your opinion on pinning your chin to your chest instead of the clavicle?
So what is your opinion on pinning your chin to your chest instead of the clavicle?
Doc
Senior Master
The chest is not good because it is not structurally sound. Pinning to the clavicle is almost immovable, and is as structurally sound as the X-factor armature (Head/neck) is possible of assuming. Once executed, no one can move it but you. Additionally it protects one of the 2 vagas nerves which control sinus rhythm and the thyroid hyoid and the esophagus so you may survive the initial assault, and subsequently retaliate.
cdhall
Master Black Belt
FYI,
I looked this up in the "motion kenpo manual" last week and it appears that we are doing this by the book. It very plainly describes the attack and how it is applied. It is not apparently what Doc is talking about, which I think I have already asked for clarification on.
Just wanted to say I looked it up. I didn't have a chance to copy it down and post it here, but I did investigate.
Doc apparently has a different, better idea. I'm going to be confused on this until perhaps I see him or he wants to post a clip or something.
Or even a few still photos.
I looked this up in the "motion kenpo manual" last week and it appears that we are doing this by the book. It very plainly describes the attack and how it is applied. It is not apparently what Doc is talking about, which I think I have already asked for clarification on.
Just wanted to say I looked it up. I didn't have a chance to copy it down and post it here, but I did investigate.
Doc apparently has a different, better idea. I'm going to be confused on this until perhaps I see him or he wants to post a clip or something.
Or even a few still photos.
OP
OP
The description I have is what it stated in my very first post. It makes no reference to the attack at all. After reading this thread and re-reading the descriptions I have need to be updated. I've always performed this technique as been taught from the beginning.
Dr. Chapel I like the attack description you have given on the attack for locking horns and gives much to think about.
Dr. Chapel I like the attack description you have given on the attack for locking horns and gives much to think about.
cdhall
Master Black Belt
I'll have to go check again tomorrow. The manual has 2 sections per belt. Decription and Notes as it were. I think it is in the teaching notes/themes section that it describes the attack in detail.
I'll look it up tomorrow and post a note. I'll look back at your first post too.
:asian:
