Glancing Salute,

[Doc]

Originally posted by Dominic Jones
Thank you Dr Chapel
Yes, I was anticipating and moving early. But isn`t this essential?

Only if you're practicing "attempted pushes." And then you won't know what to do when you actually get pushed.

I can see in "Glancing Salute" that if you do not anticipate and move early then, to survive the initial assault , you should step back.

Exactly, and not by choice. That is how he is affecting your body. Now the question is what do we do "after" it happens. The very nature of the attack means we react AFTER the attack, not during.

However if you don`t move early enougth and get hit by a punch, it could be difficult to survive that attack.

A punch is not a push. If you were to anticpate a push and treat it as a punch, there would be no difference between the two attacks. Let's just train for a punch to the shoulder.

For example in "Sleeper", the attack is a right punch. The defence involves stepping up to a left neutral bow similiarly to "Glancing Salute"

No they are not similar at all unless that is what you choose to do, which in my opinion would be a big mistake.

Do we teach our students to improve their reaction time so that they can anticipate and step towards the attack. Or do you consider this to be unrealistic?

What are you training for? There is no correlation between a punch and a push. A push must be absorbed because by definition it is something that has already happened. How quick were your reactions when your eyes were closed and you didn't know when it was coming? Weren't you forced to step back? Well that's what happens when you get pushed. If you choose to react to a push as if it were a punch, then you're not training to handle a push. Practicing to anticipate and "ride" is fine and not a bad thing, but what happens when you aren't ready and you get pushed when you're not looking? When do you train for that? Or are you one of those people who is always on guard?

There are distinctions between assaults that are directed in your direction, and those that affect you physically before you can counter. Do you do the same with a headlock, wrist grab, bear-hug, etc? Do you move before he grabs you? If you do then you're doing what most have been taught in commercial Kenpo because the mechanisms to extricate yourself or Survive The Initial Assault™are not a part of the art. For that matter the attacks are not even a part of the art. "Twisted Twig" is a good example. Were you taught how to attack with a wrist flex and throw or take him down, or does he just hand you his hand and then move before you can grab it well? You can't learn the defense if the offense isn't realistic. You'll never learn to block punches until somebody really tries to hit you. You'll never learn to deal with pushes if you move before you're actually pushed. It's your call, but don't lie to yourself, because sooner or later you may catch yourself being dishonest and it tends to be painful. Jedi Parker proved that to me long ago in a galaxy far far away where the resistance was coming together for a last assault on the death star and he ......

Wait a minute, I seem to have lost my train of thought. Age you know.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by Doc
Only if you're practicing "attempted pushes." And then you won't know what to do when you actually get pushed.

Sir,
Would it be your opinion then to practice techniques stepping backward as well as stepping forward?

The very nature of the attack means we react AFTER the attack, not during.

Now this is a good analogy. Many times over we practice techniques by just saying; ok, were going to do ...... then we react in the technique line. Anticipating if you will. How could in street altercation would one know whether to do Glancing Salute or Triggered Salute? How would one know specifically if it's going to be a cross shoulder push or a direct? How about a center chest push:idunno: Of course then there's the push that's set up for an immediate punch. You may not specifically agree with the "what if" phase but if someone were to half heartedly execute a right push (or fake push), then move directly into a left cross we may have gotten punched by trying to pull off "I think I should do Glancing Salute" here.

Just a personal question here but do you consider the first move of Flashing Mace and Glancing Salute related? I understand that the mechanics are slightly different but as the entry move to F.M. being for a live hand technique then G.S. is a semi-live technique. G.S. we have a little bit of time for the trap settle in neutral bow and then hyperextension on the elbow whereas F.M. the first move is more explosive.

Another question or more;
in one of your previous posts you talked about this tech. being in your curriculum 102. Do you consider your yellow 101, orange 102 and so forth? Then in turn when a student moves up in rank does the curriculum become 201, 202 and so on? If I'm not mistaken you may have posted on here or in the article you wrote you spoke of actually 5 levels in your curriculum. If that is the case does the student have to learn, refine, and understand the course curriculum from 101 - ?, 201 - ?, 301 - ?, 401 - ?, and 501 -?; so in turn by reaching the fifth level they have gone through all of this material 5 times over again?

Alright at the moment I think I'm out of questions.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
Sir,
Would it be your opinion then to practice techniques stepping backward as well as stepping forward?

Well sir that's a general question that demands a specific answer, therefore my answer is - it depends on many factors speciifc to the assaut itself. In the case of the push however the answer is absolutely not. When you are pushed you are already affected when you respond.

Now this is a good analogy. Many times over we practice techniques by just saying; ok, were going to do ...... then we react in the technique line. Anticipating if you will. How could in street altercation would one know whether to do Glancing Salute or Triggered Salute? How would one know specifically if it's going to be a cross shoulder push or a direct?

Because it has already happened. Commercial Kenpo has people moving prematurely on these kind of assaults therefore it is difficult to conceive anything else. I don't allow it because I teach the proper mechanisms to SIA™ (Survive the InitialAssault™)

How about a center chest push:

Sam Ting

idunno: Of course then there's the push that's set up for an immediate punch. You may not specifically agree with the "what if" phase but if someone were to half heartedly execute a right push (or fake push), then move directly into a left cross we may have gotten punched by trying to pull off "I think I should do Glancing Salute" here.

Only if you react to what hasn't happened yet.

Just a personal question here but do you consider the first move of Flashing Mace and Glancing Salute related?

No.

I understand that the mechanics are slightly different but as the entry move to F.M. being for a live hand technique then G.S. is a semi-live technique. G.S. we have a little bit of time for the trap settle in neutral bow and then hyperextension on the elbow whereas F.M. the first move is more explosive.

There is no corellation between the techniques whatsoever.

Another question or more;
in one of your previous posts you talked about this tech. being in your curriculum 102. Do you consider your yellow 101, orange 102 and so forth? Then in turn when a student moves up in rank does the curriculum become 201, 202 and so on? If I'm not mistaken you may have posted on here or in the article you wrote you spoke of actually 5 levels in your curriculum. If that is the case does the student have to learn, refine, and understand the course curriculum from 101 - ?, 201 - ?, 301 - ?, 401 - ?, and 501 -?; so in turn by reaching the fifth level they have gone through all of this material 5 times over again?

Yes, that is correct sir. Green is 105. brown begins at 201 and black is 301. when the 101 material is revisted as a black belt the first time it becomes 2101, the third 3101, etc.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by Doc
Yes, that is correct sir. Green is 105. brown begins at 201 and black is 301. when the 101 material is revisted as a black belt the first time it becomes 2101, the third 3101, etc.

Very cool idea. Relearning and refining are priorities. That's very interesting to see your ideas behind your curriculum.:asian:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
Very cool idea. Relearning and refining are priorities. That's very interesting to see your ideas behind your curriculum.:asian:

I find that it is quite functional. The goals and focus are different for each level. The first time the focus is on functional basic skills and body mechanics along with basic theory of applications. A student must make the Default Technique functional first and foremost and thereby lays a foundation of an inflexible functional curriculum to black forcing extreme competence. So you might say the first level is about the huge vocabulary of basics, how and the many ways they interact with each other, and making them work in a realistic stressful environment.

At the second level when each Default Technique is studied again, the aggression level is raised and all assaults become multiple. That is the stakes are raised and the emphasis is to take the previous vocabulary and basics and expand their applications without venturing significantly outside of the previously learned mechanism for a specific assault. ie. Sword and Hammer at first level is a flank close shoulder grab. At the second level it is a close shoulder grab with a right punch. If the previous lesson was learned well, then the technique will still work and the additional punch poses no problem because of the base methodology learned.

The third level is where all your previous skills and training come together so lengthy execution should no longer be a reality. A student should now be capable of utilizing the first one or two moves of their original Default technique to conclude and assault. In some cases the block itself should end it, in others the first strike should because now your level of precision and reactions are so fined tuned, understanding how, why and actually precisely hitting nerve cavities properly should not be a problem. ie. Sword and Hammer's first move should be a nerve strike to the centerline conclusion.

At the fourth go around the emphasis shifts competely to nerve, activations and manipulations off of the same Default Techniques with a "stunning" first move and now a concluding manipulation that also utilizes cavity presses with possible additional nerve strikes interspersed within the sequence as you desire. ie. Sword and hammer becomes (at your descretion) "stun and controlled takedown and a pin." The level of severity of the destruction is modulated by you so you may borrow from every previous level of your study, mixing your responses as you see fit at the time.

Thus curriculum is wholly inflexible for a great deal of your study as it should be. You are being taught many things and you cannot have significant flexibility and personal preference until your foundation is learned well enough to do so. When you are young with have a limited vocabulary you have difficulty expresing yourself. As your vocabulary grows so does your ability to express your feelings. But it is not until you have matured and been exposed to many words and their proper usage do you become extemporaneously articulate. You can force a ten year old to read the dictionary and attempt to know every word and its definition. It will not make him articulate without the experience of time and proper usage which will take years. Along the way he may pick up some words and use them well, but he will not be fluent no matter how much you pile on him.. "Let time be your measurement to skill and knowledge." - Ed Parker.

Thus the goal is to lay a functional curriculum that all students share and there is a specific "right and wrong" to everything. No tailoring, no personal preferences, no re-arrangement, etc. All that you need is taught in the curriculum as it should be used in proper context as your abc's are. Then slowly you expand and begin to see how these things fit together and can create new expressions with the same old letters. Then when you are significantly knowledgeable and skilled, than you make flex your extemporaneous muscles within the context of now proven concepts and learned limitations to that flexibility.

The curriculum is the same no matter which student you talk to. A technique line has each student performing the technique the same as everyone else, thus students and teachers alike can truly help each other. Only through this methodology is a true foundation available to keep the art alive. Questions may be asked and one strict answered given.

And every year as the staff becomes more knowledgeable, I raise the stakes and incorporate more information at level one and all the levels rise proportionately. Those who teach are responsible for these refinements at all levels below them. Those who do not remain, competent where they are. Thus some older higher ranks who are satisfied with their level are eventually surpassed by lower rank and younger students who contiue to be envolved in the continuing education process.

There fore it would not be unusual for a green belt to explain current information to a black belt who has not studied and kept pace with lower material. It forces everyone to respect everyone else regardless of rank. No one can dismiss anyone because the knowledge is spread throughout the student body. Like any good university, you may stop or leave, but your major continues to grow and change with the times and improve. I wonder what those that got their MBA before the internet think of e-commerce. Of course I guess they would have to go back to school to find out about it to keep that MBA current.

Now that is what Parker meant by "evolving." Changing the art isn't evolution, it's just changing. Something that motion based kenpo is supposed to do anyway for the benefit of the individual student, and not for betterment of the Art Curriculum. There is a journey, but you have a guide to keep you going in the right direction. All exploration is within yourself. You ay rummage through a dictionary and "discover" a new word, but it won't give you an encyclopedia understanding without a teacher.

Remember this : Motion based kenpo is all about the students quick skills, and there is nothing wrong with that and what it was designed for. My mission is to preserve an art, evolve and make skillful students too. And that creates mandates that don't work in the average commercial studio environment. Just different.

 

[Michael Billings]

I did not want to neglect thanking you for posting "Glancing Salute." I have been in the midst of moving my office, and unloading a storage stall for home, plus doing some physical therapy for my recent ankle surgery. A result is I have not been on line nearly as much as in the past, none-the-less, I did not want you to think I did not appreciate your post or this thread. As always, thanks for sharing.

Yours in Kenpo

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Doc
8. GLANCING SALUTE:

ATTACK: 12:00. Take two steps. First with your left as you approach and then step forward with your right foot and forcibly push with your right hand across to their right shoulder. Be sure the push is “committed” transferring your weight to your front foot in anticipation of overcoming the significant resistance of their body mass.

1. Standing naturally, when your opponent pushes your right shoulder with his right hand. SURVIVE THE INITIAL ASSAULT ™ (The force of his push will turn your right shoulder, misalign your hips and cause your right foot to step rearward to regain your balance. When your right foot plants, PAM and pivot your hips forcibly into a modified forward bow toward 3:00 to absorb his energy.) Simultaneously, your right thumb edge of your clenched fists wrist, PINS your opponent's right wrist to the right side of your chest (FITTING PRINCIPLE) as you SLAP-CHECK BAM your left thigh on the side. Maintain your head and chin pointing at your attacker at all times.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will cause all of your weight to be transferred to your forward foot and your right shoulder will be forced slightly to the your left beyond the RADIAL LINE REFERENCE.

2. Immediately after the above action QUICKTIME execute a left inward vertical forearm strike at a slight upward angle slight above and against the joint of your opponent's right elbow to cause a hyperextension.

STUDY PARTNER: Done properly this action will cause you to stand straight up and on your toes and pull your rear shoulder further beyond the RADIAL LINE REFERENCE, canceling your width.

PAUSE

3. Maintain CONTACT MANIPULATION with your left arm and BRUSH upward to turn the arm slightly. Then pivot to your left toward 12 o'clock and step forward and PAM into a left forward bow with your left hand striking down on his upper forearm with a hammer-fist, and continues to a PIN of your opponent's right arm to your body, and ….

STUDY PARTNER: This action will force you to bend forward and jerk your head to your left.

3. …. execute a right thrusting heel palm strike to his right center of jaw, fingers pointed to your left and allow your hand to RICOCHET past your opponent's head rubbing and maintaining CONTACT MANIPULATION with your forearm. Maintain your fingers pointed to the left and tension in your heel-palm.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will cause you to straighten your back and force your head up and back slightly, but your arm is still pinned not allowing your lower body to move back. Additionally the strike to the side of the jaw should cause PMD and significantly “stun” you.

STOP PAUSE

4. Then HOOK/STRIKE the back of his neck, and control your opponent's height by ANCHORING your right elbow in front and against his chest, while executing a right knee strike to your opponent's lower centerline. Do not allow your opponent to “bend forward. CONTACT MANIPULATE his depth with your forearm.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will definitely cause you to take at least one step backwards with your right foot because you are misaligned and will attempt to recover your balance.

5. Maintain CONTACT MANIPULATION and plant your right foot forward into a right neutral bow with a GRAVITY PAM.

PAUSE

6. Maintaining CONTACT MANIPULATION, Push-drag reverse slightly forcing his head to move toward you. Then CONTROL RELEASE and push-drag forward with a right inward elbow strike to your opponent's head or centerline creating a GUIDED COLLISION.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will cause you to move up and back and you should collapse to the ground from misalignment, PMD, and momentum.

7. Right front crossover, covering out toward 7:30 and PAM your right foot.

Timing & Breathing Signature: 1 P 2,3 P 45 P 6 C

What I've gathered from this written version is PAM is another word for AND. If you step back with the right AND then stomp or PAM with the left (and I'm assuming that's what you meant) as you wrote tells me this. Also the fact that by stepping back you teach a built in misconception of the attack. The idea to me is that you percieve the attack slightly before the push which will engage the forward movement of the left leg. Should you step back with this attack, the technique of Attacking Mace comes to mind or some other extemporaneous version of the many I've learned. In a heightened adrenal state you should be aware (the eight considerations of combat) of the actions happening to you, not to close your eyes and wait for a push. To teach it this way robs the student of the perception of action IMHO. Would you care to go into this more?


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
I did not want to neglect thanking you for posting "Glancing Salute." I have been in the midst of moving my office, and unloading a storage stall for home, plus doing some physical therapy for my recent ankle surgery. A result is I have not been on line nearly as much as in the past, none-the-less, I did not want you to think I did not appreciate your post or this thread. As always, thanks for sharing.

Yours in Kenpo

Mr. Billings I would think so such thing..

 

[Doc]

What I've gathered from this written version is PAM is another word for AND.

No Mr. O’Briant, it is not. I usually hesitate to post technique descriptions from our curriculum because they contain phrases, mechanisms, and concepts that may be confusing or misunderstood. The information is designed to be augmented by physical interaction with competent instructions.

If you step back with the right AND then stomp or PAM with the left (and I'm assuming that's what you meant)

I’m sorry but you seemed to have misread that.

Also the fact that by stepping back you teach a built in misconception of the attack.

No I disagree, the misconception is someone can “always” anticipate any assault.

The idea to me is that you percieve the attack slightly before the push which will engage the forward movement of the left leg.

I understand that, and I addressed that in previous posts. The “idea” that YOU “perceive” the attack before it occurs is a motion concept taught by many that I do not subscribe to. From my perspective, it is a very large assumption that in my opinion makes the assault no different than a “punch” like attack.

Should you step back with this attack, the technique of Attacking Mace comes to mind or some other extemporaneous version of the many I've learned.

I have no doubt you have many variations that you may perform. I know your teacher very well and he is indeed talented but conceptually teaches different than I. Multiple variations prevent the establishment of a specific way to examine the model of the assault.

In a heightened adrenal state you should be aware (the eight considerations of combat) of the actions happening to you,

This is another assumption. No one is in a “heightened adrenal state” all the time. To assume otherwise is a “false assumption,” in our philosophy.

not to close your eyes and wait for a push.

I never suggested someone should close their eyes to “wait” to be pushed, except as a training aid to the poster who was doing as you suggested and “anticipating” the push and was (as I see it) moving prematurely apparently as you do as well. I wanted him to experience what happens when you can’t anticipate the “push.”

It is ludicrous to “wait” to be pushed in an actual encounter if you are “aware” of an impending assault. Proper training, in my opinion should address the distinct possibility of being caught “unaware” in the real world. Anything else is an “attempted” push. I have previously stated motion-based Kenpo deals in “attempts” in areas where SubLevel Four Kenpo does not.

Oddly enough the latest issue of SWAT Magazine has a story on Special Forces Training. Part of their training as stated in the story, is to “close the eyes” for some attacks so they cannot be anticipated, and therefore force them to react to circumstances. It is only in this manner that you can train for the “unanticipated.”

To teach it this way robs the student of the perception of action IMHO.

Conversely, in my opinion, to teach in the manner you subscribe to will deny the student the opportunity to react effectively to an actual “push.” We differ in that my definition of a “push” is something that has “already happened” and should NOT be anticipated or in the “progress of happening.”

With all the striking assaults, students have a significant number of opportunities to react to, and experience “the perception of action” as taught in motion kenpo. This is simply a philosophical difference between two very diverse interpretations of the art. Neither is right or wrong, only different and those who successfully subscribe to the philosophy of your teacher have no reason to do anything else.

However I was not taught that way by Mr. Parker, and it is one of many discords between the philosophy of his motion based commercial art and the SubLevel Four kenpo Curriculum, that I accept. Most of what I’ve said was addressed in previous posts on this string and others. Beyond that, I simply can and do choose to agree to disagree vehemently.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Would you care to go a bit more indepth on your idea of PAMing, Maybe I misunderstood the concept?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Would you care to go a bit more indepth on your idea of PAMing, Maybe I misunderstood the concept?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

A PAM is a mechanism sir utilized to create structural integrity when the body moves into a naturally "disassociated mode." (I have written the beginning of a paper on this subject and it is availble on Jason Bugg's site). Unfortunately it is something that must be taught, and it is circumstantially dedicated. It stands for, (in this case) Platform Aligning Mechanism. Those who have come to visit seem to be impressed with a simple demo of how it can work.

The larger issue in this particular technique is how we, as teachers, conceptually present and teach a particular assault. We have a larger responsibility that goes well beyond our own personal skill and capabilities to convey information of the most benefit to students.

Punches are taught as you correctly stated, to be "anticipated" because we are "reacting" to an "in progress" assault from greater distance or range. Pushes tend to come from a much closer distance because the assailant has been allowed inside our personal space for various reasons. But I still maintain a push, by definition, has already occured, and the term as I was taught does not define an in progress action or event.

But I do understand where you're coming from and why. Thank you sir for your interaction.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Doc
A PAM is a mechanism sir utilized to create structural integrity when the body moves into a naturally "disassociated mode." (I have written the beginning of a paper on this subject and it is availble on Jason Bugg's site). Unfortunately it is something that must be taught, and it is circumstantially dedicated. It stands for, (in this case) Platform Aligning Mechanism. Those who have come to visit seem to be impressed with a simple demo of how it can work.

The larger issue in this particular technique is how we, as teachers, conceptually present and teach a particular assault. We have a larger responsibility that goes well beyond our own personal skill and capabilities to convey information of the most benefit to students.

Punches are taught as you correctly stated, to be "anticipated" because we are "reacting" to an "in progress" assault from greater distance or range. Pushes tend to come from a much closer distance because the assailant has been allowed inside our personal space for various reasons. But I still maintain a push, by definition, has already occured, and the term as I was taught does not define an in progress action or event.

But I do understand where you're coming from and why. Thank you sir for your interaction.

OK, got that but can you describe what PAMing is without showing it. I was shown A version of it and ran some initial blind tests to prove or disprove the theory. As of yet I've discovered it doesn't work, but I may be doing it wrong. I get the slap ck principle (I believe you call it BAMing), Larry is well known for that and has passed it down to his underlings.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
OK, got that but can you describe what PAMing is without showing it. I was shown A version of it and ran some initial blind tests to prove or disprove the theory. As of yet I've discovered it doesn't work, but I may be doing it wrong. I get the slap ck principle (I believe you call it BAMing), Larry is well known for that and has passed it down to his underlings.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Sir, the reason it is only referenced and not explained in our coursebooks, is because it is designed to be explained and taught in context of it's immediate application by an instructor. Everything is activity dedicated.

Perhaps Larry would be the best one to show it to you because he would be capable of putting it in context with his teaching philosophy, and explain how its relationship with BAM is used in his interpretation, which is different from mine.

There is probably some misunderstandings as well because the terminology was created by me from my conversations with and notes from Mr. Parker.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Doc
Sir, the reason it is only referenced and not explained in our coursebooks, is because it is designed to be explained and taught in context of it's immediate application by an instructor. Everything is activity dedicated.

Perhaps Larry would be the best one to show it to you because he would be capable of putting it in context with his teaching philosophy, and explain how its relationship with BAM is used in his interpretation, which is different from mine.

There is probably some misunderstandings as well because the terminology was created by me from my conversations with and notes from Mr. Parker.

OK

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
OK

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Once again thanks for the interaction, sorry I couldn't do more over the forum.

 

[Dominic Jones]

Originally posted by Doc
Punches are taught as you correctly stated, to be "anticipated" because we are "reacting" to an "in progress" assault from greater distance or range. Pushes tend to come from a much closer distance because the assailant has been allowed inside our personal space for various reasons. But I still maintain a push, by definition, has already occured, and the term as I was taught does not define an in progress action or event.

Thank you Doc. I think your above quote answers my previous question about anticipating attacks.

Originally posted by Dominic
However if you don`t move early enougth and get hit by a punch, it could be difficult to survive that attack.

Cheers Dominic:asian:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Dominic Jones
Thank you Doc. I think your above quote answers my previous question about anticipating attacks.



Cheers Dominic:asian:

No, I thank you. I love these discussions. A punch is something that can be thrown without contact. A push by definition describes and action that has already taken place and requires contact.

 

[Touch Of Death]

First of all I have no clue what PAM is but I get the gist of what you are trying to accomplish. We approach the problem you suggest by eliminating the "natural stance" that is we use the cycle of considerations to suggest that an attack could come from anyone so we act accordingly. I'm not saying we square off with everyone we see ( but perhaps we do mentaly) I look at it as sort of a game and although my feet are toguether or slightly apart, I've already chosen my lead leg and my hands are already innocently enough where they need to be. I must admit my eyes were glazing over with the vague descriptions or detailed descriptions for that matter. I would like to see and feel that PAM Idea though. maybe someday. The bottom line with what we are doing is to make as many choices before the attack as possible. I'll quit babbling now.

 

[Doc]

This post is in response to a private message I received regarding "slapchecks," and a request that I respond publicly.

In the beginning when Ed Parker Sr. began teaching Kenpo from the strict Chinese perspective, and before he began the transition to motion based Kenpo, the Slap-Check was a natural component of the art. Old film of Parker will show he rountinely "slap-checked" in all his executions in the early sixties. In the Chinese Arts, the Slap-Check (or Pak Sao at it is called in Wing Chun) is used essentially as it was used by Ed Parker Sr. in th beginning. Its other related concepts are Lop-Sao (blocking hand), and the Chi-Sao (sticking hand). Most in “motion Kenpo” are unaware of its existence and only a few attempt to “mimic” its use, but are unaware of how it actually is used or it’s many functions.

The reason for the lack of knowledge for such a important part of American Kenpo comes from Mr. Parker’s decision to begin, by personal preference and necessity, to teach a “motion based concept.” This motion component does not utilize the Slap-Check/Pak Sao and was actually purposely abandoned by Mr. Parker in his teachings in the early sixties, in favor of a more interpretive and less strict in-formal style of Kenpo, which emphasized his written “Positional Checks,” over "Slap-check Theory, and its multiple functions.

Unfortunately, even then and now, students of Ed Parker attempted to mimic Mr. Parker’s use of the Slap-Check. Their early misunderstanding is the origin of the term “slap art” used by "traditionalist" of the time. Some of the traditionalist didn’t understand it, right along with Ed Parker’s students who attempted to mimic their teacher, and misapplied it by "slapping" all over the place. Slapping the leg repeated in sparring became fairly commonplace at the time.

Although some accidently ocassionally “getting it right,” without the understanding of this modern tool of American Kenpo, it is possible to do as much harm to yourself as your opponent, and impossible to development consistency because of it’s many sub-categories of execution.

Some made fun of Ed Parker students even though they respected Ed Parker himself. Mr. Parker never taught it to his students, nor is it included in any of his so-called definitive writings. He never explained its use and would only suggest if asked, “It helps your timing.” There are some who still mimic Ed Parker, but really have no understanding of it’s use, and in fact, I have actually seen it used it in a negative fashion by slapping for sound effects or simply to mimic what they have seen.

But the term “Slap-check” as I use it is a very broad and general term that has many subcategories of more specific definitions and uses. Its use with proper body mechanics can generate and move energy, align the body properly in ways and places not easily understood, and it also has some obvious physical mechanics of execution.

Also, every positive effect you may generate for yourself will have a negative impact and effect on your opponent if performed correctly. The “how, when, what and why” are all a part of SubLevel Four Kenpo Curriculum. In the beginning you learn mechanically “how,” and “when” to develop their proper timing and execution in every Default technique sequence. Later you begin to understand “what” you do has an effect on everything else you do and finally “why.” There is no part of your body that you can move that doesn’t have a significant effect on another part of your anatomy. Positive or negative simply depends.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Doc
This post is in response to a private message I received regarding "slapchecks," and a request that I respond publicly.

In the beginning when Ed Parker Sr. began teaching Kenpo from the strict Chinese perspective, and before he began the transition to motion based Kenpo, the Slap-Check was a natural component of the art. Old film of Parker will show he rountinely "slap-checked" in all his executions in the early sixties.

Most in “motion Kenpo” are unaware of its existence and only a few attempt to “mimic” its use, but are unaware of how it actually is used or it’s many functions.

The reason for the lack of knowledge for such a important part of American Kenpo comes from Mr. Parker’s decision to begin, by personal preference and necessity, to teach a “motion based concept.” This motion component does not utilize the Slap-Check/Pak Sao and was actually purposely abandoned by Mr. Parker in his teachings in the early sixties, in favor of a more interpretive and less strict in-formal style of Kenpo, which emphasized his written “Positional Checks,” over "Slap-check Theory, and its multiple functions.

Unfortunately, even then and now, students of Ed Parker attempted to mimic Mr. Parker’s use of the Slap-Check. Their early misunderstanding is the origin of the term “slap art” used by "traditionalist" of the time. Some of the traditionalist didn’t understand it, right along with Ed Parker’s students who attempted to mimic their teacher, and misapplied it by "slapping" all over the place. Slapping the leg repeated in sparring became fairly commonplace at the time.

Although some accidently ocassionally “getting it right,” without the understanding of this modern tool of American Kenpo, it is possible to do as much harm to yourself as your opponent, and impossible to development consistency because of it’s many sub-categories of execution.

Some made fun of Ed Parker students even though they respected Ed Parker himself. Mr. Parker never taught it to his students, nor is it included in any of his so-called definitive writings. He never explained its use and would only suggest if asked, “It helps your timing.” There are some who still mimic Ed Parker, but really have no understanding of it’s use, and in fact, I have actually seen it used it in a negative fashion by slapping for sound effects or simply to mimic what they have seen.

But the term “Slap-check” as I use it is a very broad and general term that has many subcategories of more specific definitions and uses. Its use with proper body mechanics can generate and move energy, align the body properly in ways and places not easily understood, and it also has some obvious physical mechanics of execution.

Also, every positive effect you may generate for yourself will have a negative impact and effect on your opponent if performed correctly. The “how, when, what and why” are all a part of SubLevel Four Kenpo Curriculum. In the beginning you learn mechanically “how,” and “when” to develop their proper timing and execution in every Default technique sequence. Later you begin to understand “what” you do has an effect on everything else you do and finally “why.” There is no part of your body that you can move that doesn’t have a significant effect on another part of your anatomy. Positive or negative simply depends.

Doc,

I agree with some of what you said, particularly the idea that SGM Parker didn't create this apparently old chinese concept. I found an interesting article that gives another perspective on what SL-4 calls "slap checking".

http://www.eurekainternalarts.com/publications/news2.html

One question I have that probably isn't for this forum is in the realm of "Slap-check Theory" how many different versions of slap checks are there? Have you defined them by purpose and application? Both good and bad? Being the researcher you are I'm guessing the answer is yes. Have you written any academic text on the subject beyond the surface stuff that you'd be willing to share?

jb:asian: