Do chicks dig martial arts?

[Flea]

It came up elsewhere, so I thought it deserved a spinoff.

On that thread, I said that my experience is a little different as a woman. But people in general seem to dig it. Other women are impressed because I'm doing something to protect myself. They think they can't do it, even though all I did was respond to an ad in the classifieds. I tell them that and it usually makes no difference at all.

A lot of my friends and family are impressed simply because I'm doing something interesting. The fact that it's not an Asian MA seems to give it a higher cache as a stereotype buster. :uhyeah:

In lesbian circles, chicks most definitely dig it. Not only is strength sexy, but it also feeds directly into that feminist "empowerment" model. Whoo baby!! I think the confidence its' given me also comes through, and confidence is a turn-on in any romantic/sexual arena. Especially when it's backed with the calm awareness of not needing to prove anything. Still working on that one ...

Anyone else?

 

[Chris Parker]

I am in two minds as to whether or not to answer this properly...

In short, no. They may enjoy it, they may be interested in it, but (in the vein of the original thread post you took this concept from...), no. The perception is too far skewed for it to truly be "dug".

That said, there are values which are part of the benefits of martial art training which are "dug", so the idea is not completely invalid. But remember, I am taking this in the vein of it's source, and as such am only giving a very partial answer here, so read into it from that perspective.

 

[Flea]

Thanks Chris.

And please understand that I'm not trying to be sexist by bringing up the question. I just think it's worth exploring because it generated so much interest on the other thread.

More to the point, as you said it's about the public perception of MA. While I don't have women throwing themselves at me (sigh) I do get a lot of the "show me some moves!" and the "can you kick my ***?" I couldn't pass for badass in a million years, so that's pretty funny.

I'm really interested in what others have to say on this, especially the relatively few women on MT.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I don't recall Cosmo mentioning Martial arts as a turn on.
(I sometimes read it when I have to wait in a doctor's office)
From the magazines and online answers it comes down to tattoo,nice smile,has muscle,good personality,funny,smart,caring.

But I imagine it varies from girl to girl. But what do I know I am a guy.

 

[Joab]

I had a friend who was into aikido. He told me there were a lot of women in aikido, and he met more than one girlfriend initially in an aikido dojo. I never took aikido, so I don't know if any of this is true.

When I was dating my wife she had no problem with my interest in martial arts and in fact wanted to learn some self defense. My first try didn't work very well, either she is slow or I'm a lousy teacher or a combination of the two.

 

[Chris Parker]

Thanks Chris.

And please understand that I'm not trying to be sexist by bringing up the question. I just think it's worth exploring because it generated so much interest on the other thread.

More to the point, as you said it's about the public perception of MA. While I don't have women throwing themselves at me (sigh) I do get a lot of the "show me some moves!" and the "can you kick my ***?" I couldn't pass for badass in a million years, so that's pretty funny.

I'm really interested in what others have to say on this, especially the relatively few women on MT.

Hey Flea,

Yeah, that is what I meant by "they might be interested", rather than they might "dig" it. The context there was important. And by public perception, I was bringing into it the idea that this was non-martial artist women, which is the original context of women "digging" what we do.

The average non-martial artist has very little real understanding of what the realities are, in terms of the training and philosophies, as well as the personalities involved for those who train. To get an idea, people will go to any reference they have access to, and if there is no first hand experience, then they will go to second hand, and that is movies/tv etc. And in those sources, the martial artist is either overly good/competant, or the violent, often mysogenistic thug. Neither is truly positive or accurate, but it is where the perception will come from. As a result, the answers you will get from women here (who train) will be different than asking a non-training "woman on the street".

Oh, and I didn't think you were being sexist at all. Nor was anyone else who has commented similar. Simply relating personal experiences in a way that they related to... or percieved them.

 

[rdonovan1]

I personally think that women do dig the martial arts. I know of one girl that is my supervisor that is into self defense big time. She's orignally from Colorado and she is really cute, but given the fact that she studies the martial arts tends to make me wonder a little bit about her.

I wonder because I remember the scene in the movie the next Karate Kid staring Hillary Swank in which she and her friend are sitting in his car after just coming back from the prom. He knows that she has been studying Karate from Mr. Miyagi and as such he is just a little concerned that if he were to lean over and kiss her that she might turn around and kick his *** just for trying to kiss her.

It's at that scene in which she starts to recall what Mr. Miyagi told her about anger manangement and as such she starts to repeat the saying 'The sun is warm, the grass is green'.

The rest of the movie is pretty cool as well, especially the part where she kicks the bullies *** using the techniques that Mr. Miyagi taught her.

I'm all for women learning the martial arts and while I can't speak for any of the other guys here, I personally would find it very humilitating if I could not defend myself and had to be protected by a girl in a fight.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

They think they can't do it, even though all I did was respond to an ad in the classifieds. I tell them that and it usually makes no difference at all.

One of the hardest things in the world is convincing someone that they can do something they have decided they cannot do.

I have heard it referred to as 'live choices' versus 'dead choices'. In my former life in law enforcement, one of the eternal frustrations is when women are involved in abusive relationships and won't leave. Even when options are there for them - shelters, money, etc. They listen to the counseling and hear the words and nod their heads, and then they go and bail the bum who hit them out and the next weekend it starts again. To them - for whatever deep complex psychological reason - leaving is just not an option. It's a 'dead choice'.

I've spoken to many friends and relatives who are impressed that I did two tours in the Marines, or that I am taking karate at age 48, and they tell me "I could never do that." Like you, I'm somewhat amazed. When I joined the Marines, I was no prime physical specimen, far from it. And when I started karate, I was way overweight and very much out of shape. The only thing I did in both cases was not quit on myself.

Back to the topic - yeah, I think chicks dig martial artists. Not the arts as much as the artists. And not because of the kick-punch-block-throw aspect but because it is physical and it is violent (at times and depending on the MA). The same reason chicks dig football players, bad boys, and guitarists, it's the alpha-male thing. Very primitive mojo, but it still works.

Not to cast aspersions or be sexist, but just dealing with base genetics, to a woman raised in a traditional society where the man provides, defends, and protects, a male martial artist can very clearly defend and protect.

The demographics I've read on MMA show that men, particularly young men, are the most interested in MMA itself - something like 80% of MMA fans are male. While everyone is different, in the aggregate, I suspect that female fans of watching mixed-martial arts are generally a lot like female fans of football - they like it because the guys like it.

 

[Tez3]

We have quite a lot of female fans of MMA here but when you explain to them that women also fight they are amazed and fairly shocked...at first then the little grey cells, as Poirot would say, start ticking over and I've had a couple of women join a friend of mines classes after we talked to them. I doubt they will fight but they are certainly interested in the fitness and confidence training brings.
We had an army PTI, a lass, come and train with us while she was posted here, she loved the fighting aspect of it, Flea you would have got on with her like a house on fire, but perhaps military women view things a bit differently from 'civvies'?

 

[jarrod]

in my experience, chicks think it is pretty cool at first. if things progress to the relationship level though, they seem to get frustrated that i'm training so much. it's kind of like they want you to have magic super badass protective powers, but without spending any time away from them.

jf

 

[Carol]

I've found a wide variety of reactions amongst other women I know.

My family for example...I thought my mom and sister would be weirded out by it, but they think its cool. I try to visit Bill Parson's Kenpo school when I'm down there and my mom comes along. Sometimes she stands on the sidelines and stretches out with us, other times she watches or reads.

With friends and neighbors the reaction is either "hey, that's cool" or "Oh yeah? My (insert relative here) took (TKD, Kempo, Karate) for awhile" or "I've always wanted to try (insert art here)"

 

[Omar B]

I've told this story many times but I'll give the shortened version. One of my college girlfriends was all about me doing karate, told anyone who would listen that she was dating "a karate guy" as she put it. Only thing is, when she realized after 2 months that I trained 3 nights a week and 4 hours first thing on Saturday she didn't like it. Loves the part about me being able to kick *** and that I'm in good shape, hates that I have to spend so much time away. Hate the cause, love the effect.

On the other hand, my sister's great at karate. She's tall, thin, in great shape and dudes constantly hit on her but they are threatened by a girl who can take care of herself. That leads to her having dated pretty good, decent, self condfident guys throughout college. I rememebr once I picked her up at school and some guy was being pushy with her by the gates as she waited on me. He grabbed at her butt, she pushed him back to create space and landed a spinnign back kick to his chest sending him into some hedges in front of all his boys. Hilarious.

 

[rdonovan1]

I've told this story many times but I'll give the shortened version. One of my college girlfriends was all about me doing karate, told anyone who would listen that she was dating "a karate guy" as she put it. Only thing is, when she realized after 2 months that I trained 3 nights a week and 4 hours first thing on Saturday she didn't like it. Loves the part about me being able to kick *** and that I'm in good shape, hates that I have to spend so much time away. Hate the cause, love the effect.

On the other hand, my sister's great at karate. She's tall, thin, in great shape and dudes constantly hit on her but they are threatened by a girl who can take care of herself. That leads to her having dated pretty good, decent, self condfident guys throughout college. I rememebr once I picked her up at school and some guy was being pushy with her by the gates as she waited on me. He grabbed at her butt, she pushed him back to create space and landed a spinnign back kick to his chest sending him into some hedges in front of all his boys. Hilarious.

It sounds like the guy deserved what he got and I think that your sister did the right thing. I just wish that I could get my sister interested in the martial arts as I think that it would do her and her son's a world of good. One of them was a strong kicker when he was a baby and she mentioned the possibility of getting him into the martial arts and I sure hope that she does. If she doesn't get him into the martial arts then she should at least get him into something like football or soccer.

 

[rdonovan1]

One of the hardest things in the world is convincing someone that they can do something they have decided they cannot do.

I have heard it referred to as 'live choices' versus 'dead choices'. In my former life in law enforcement, one of the eternal frustrations is when women are involved in abusive relationships and won't leave. Even when options are there for them - shelters, money, etc. They listen to the counseling and hear the words and nod their heads, and then they go and bail the bum who hit them out and the next weekend it starts again. To them - for whatever deep complex psychological reason - leaving is just not an option. It's a 'dead choice'.

I've spoken to many friends and relatives who are impressed that I did two tours in the Marines, or that I am taking karate at age 48, and they tell me "I could never do that." Like you, I'm somewhat amazed. When I joined the Marines, I was no prime physical specimen, far from it. And when I started karate, I was way overweight and very much out of shape. The only thing I did in both cases was not quit on myself.

Back to the topic - yeah, I think chicks dig martial artists. Not the arts as much as the artists. And not because of the kick-punch-block-throw aspect but because it is physical and it is violent (at times and depending on the MA). The same reason chicks dig football players, bad boys, and guitarists, it's the alpha-male thing. Very primitive mojo, but it still works.

Not to cast aspersions or be sexist, but just dealing with base genetics, to a woman raised in a traditional society where the man provides, defends, and protects, a male martial artist can very clearly defend and protect.

The demographics I've read on MMA show that men, particularly young men, are the most interested in MMA itself - something like 80% of MMA fans are male. While everyone is different, in the aggregate, I suspect that female fans of watching mixed-martial arts are generally a lot like female fans of football - they like it because the guys like it.

I think convincing anyone to do anything that is positive and constructive is a very difficult thing indeed and that is why I am into things like behavior modification and sales and marketing. It's also why I am so keen on things like NLP as I am always trying to find new and improved ways of influencing and persuading people into doing things that are healthy and positive for them.

One of the things that I have learned from studying NLP is that most people tend to think very negatively and that is why I often tend to use negation on them as I know that the mind cannot process a negative.

That's why children often tend to do things that we tell them that they should not do like playing in the street or something like that. When you use negative tones like that with them it often tends to make them want to do what they are not supposed to do. The best way to get them to do somethng is to use positive reinforcement instead of negative reinforcement.

 

[rdonovan1]

I don't recall Cosmo mentioning Martial arts as a turn on.
(I sometimes read it when I have to wait in a doctor's office)
From the magazines and online answers it comes down to tattoo,nice smile,has muscle,good personality,funny,smart,caring.

But I imagine it varies from girl to girl. But what do I know I am a guy.

I wonder as to how important looks and money are to a girl. I've heard that they are not really all that important to a girl from guys in the game, but I am not quite sure about that as from what I have noticed many girls do seem to care about both looks and money.

Perhaps one of the ladies here can help to answer that question for all of us that are confused by it.

 

[Flea]

Hee hee ... we are veering off topic, but I'll bite.

Women are people too (not that you'd dispute that, but it's a point worth repeating.) As such, we all have different tastes and priorities. I don't respond much to looks beyond the initial impression. Money is the same way. Instead, I tend to err in the opposite direction and jump to the conclusion that if someone has money, and especially if they flash it around, they must be shallow.

I'm into the Voluntary Simplicity movement, and it was a rift with my last partner. There was no animosity about it, but he only felt like he was doing right by me when he spent lots of money. I kept telling him that I was perfectly happy with a simple cup of coffee or a concert at the park, but he couldn't get past that. In turn I felt guilty because he really couldn't afford it. On the other side I felt conflicted because this was his language of love; shouldn't I just enjoy being appreciated? We never did find a middle ground on that one. He got married last month and I hope they see eye to eye on that. Compulsive spending or no, he's a catch. I wish them well.

Maybe it's the company I keep, but I don't know of any women who would accept or reject a man solely on looks or money. Of course if I met any I'd keep right on moving. I don't waste my time or energy on shallow people.

I've heard that they are not really all that important to a girl from guys in the game, but I am not quite sure about that as from what I have noticed many girls do seem to care about both looks and money.

Rdonovan, maybe you're interested in the wrong women?

 

[rdonovan1]

Hee hee ... we are veering off topic, but I'll bite.

Women are people too (not that you'd dispute that, but it's a point worth repeating.) As such, we all have different tastes and priorities. I don't respond much to looks beyond the initial impression. Money is the same way. Instead, I tend to err in the opposite direction and jump to the conclusion that if someone has money, and especially if they flash it around, they must be shallow.

I'm into the Voluntary Simplicity movement, and it was a rift with my last partner. There was no animosity about it, but he only felt like he was doing right by me when he spent lots of money. I kept telling him that I was perfectly happy with a simple cup of coffee or a concert at the park, but he couldn't get past that. In turn I felt guilty because he really couldn't afford it. On the other side I felt conflicted because this was his language of love; shouldn't I just enjoy being appreciated? We never did find a middle ground on that one. He got married last month and I hope they see eye to eye on that. Compulsive spending or no, he's a catch. I wish them well.

Maybe it's the company I keep, but I don't know of any women who would accept or reject a man solely on looks or money. Of course if I met any I'd keep right on moving. I don't waste my time or energy on shallow people.



Rdonovan, maybe you're interested in the wrong women?

I'm glad that you helped to clear that up as I once read a book written by a psychologist named Warren Farrell called 'Why men are the way they are'. In his book he said that women tend to treat men like they are success objects and that men tend to treat women like they are sex objects. While there may be some truth to what he said I have always believed that personality is much more appealing to women and is more important that either looks or money because once the looks and money are gone all you really have left is things like personality and character and that is something that I think the martial arts is good for.

While it may not help a person to develop their personality better it can certainly help a person to develop better character and better self confidence and self esteem as well as self discipline and that is why I brought up the subject in the first place.

 

[rdonovan1]

I don't recall Cosmo mentioning Martial arts as a turn on.
(I sometimes read it when I have to wait in a doctor's office)
From the magazines and online answers it comes down to tattoo,nice smile,has muscle,good personality,funny,smart,caring.

But I imagine it varies from girl to girl. But what do I know I am a guy.

Let's not forget to add in romance as women tend to love romance and while both genders tend to be interested in sex, women tend to be more interested in romance. The difference is in how both genders tend to get to that goal.

Most men tend to look at a woman and think that she might look good and be good in bed, while most women tend to look at a man and wonder as to how romantic, tender and loving he actually is and whether he is the type of guy that will stand up and fight if necessary to protect both her and any children they may have together.

It all basically comes down to that male/female polarity and that is something that is very similar to the concept of ying/yang and while I am not really sure about this, I think that is where the Chinese came up with the whole concept of ying/yang.

One thing that I do know for sure is that many of the Chinese martial arts can and did spring up from watching nature and as to how the animals interacted with one another and as to how they fought.

That is from what I understand how and where they came up with systems like Dragon, Tiger, Monkey, Snake, Crane, and even Praying Mantis Kung Fu and I personally think that is really, really cool as to how they did that.

I also tend to like what Bruce Lee said in the movie 'Enter the Dragon' in the scene in which he is on the boat with the guy that is basically nothing but a trouble maker.

I don't know if anyone will remember that scene, but that is the scene in which he is challenged on the boat and he is asked as to what his style is. He responds by saying that his style is the art of fighting without fighting.

His challenger is intrigued by that and asks him to show him some of it. At first he is reluctant to do so, but he finally relents and asks him if he see's the beach and his challenger responds by saying that he does. Bruce then goes on to tell him that they will need more room than what they have on the boat and he asks the guy to meet him on the beach. The guy agrees and then proceeds to get into the boat. Once the guy is in the boat, Bruce then turns around and let's the tension on the rope loose enough so that the the guy is in the boat all alone and trailing behind the Junk with water spilling over the sides.

I personally thought that was very interesting as that is exactly the same type of tactics that Miyomoto Mushashi was famous for and from what I have heard he often deliberately either showed up late or early to a fight just to antagonize and piss off his opponent so that his opponent would be so riled up that he would not make the correct choices and as a result that always cost his opponent the battle and that is why Mushashi is considered one of the greatest swordsmen that ever lived.

He like the Samurai knew the importance of maintaining emotional self control and composure and he knew that could either make or break the outcome of the fight and more often than not he was right about that.

Sun Tzu was also really good at strategy as well and I guess that is why both his book and Miyamoto Mushashi's books are required reading at all of the United States military academies and from what I have heard the Japanese have take many of their concepts and applied them to the business world as well.

 

[Tez3]

Let's not forget to add in romance as women tend to love romance and while both genders tend to be interested in sex, women tend to be more interested in romance. The difference is in how both genders tend to get to that goal.

Most men tend to look at a woman and think that she might look good and be good in bed, while most women tend to look at a man and wonder as to how romantic, tender and loving he actually is and whether he is the type of guy that will stand up and fight if necessary to protect both her and any children they may have together.

It all basically comes down to that male/female polarity and that is something that is very similar to the concept of ying/yang and while I am not really sure about this, I think that is where the Chinese came up with the whole concept of ying/yang.

One thing that I do know for sure is that many of the Chinese martial arts can and did spring up from watching nature and as to how the animals interacted with one another and as to how they fought.

That is from what I understand how and where they came up with systems like Dragon, Tiger, Monkey, Snake, Crane, and even Praying Mantis Kung Fu and I personally think that is really, really cool as to how they did that.

I also tend to like what Bruce Lee said in the movie 'Enter the Dragon' in the scene in which he is on the boat with the guy that is basically nothing but a trouble maker.

I don't know if anyone will remember that scene, but that is the scene in which he is challenged on the boat and he is asked as to what his style is. He responds by saying that his style is the art of fighting without fighting.

His challenger is intrigued by that and asks him to show him some of it. At first he is reluctant to do so, but he finally relents and asks him if he see's the beach and his challenger responds by saying that he does. Bruce then goes on to tell him that they will need more room than what they have on the boat and he asks the guy to meet him on the beach. The guy agrees and then proceeds to get into the boat. Once the guy is in the boat, Bruce then turns around and let's the tension on the rope loose enough so that the the guy is in the boat all alone and trailing behind the Junk with water spilling over the sides.

I personally thought that was very interesting as that is exactly the same type of tactics that Miyomoto Mushashi was famous for and from what I have heard he often deliberately either showed up late or early to a fight just to antagonize and piss off his opponent so that his opponent would be so riled up that he would not make the correct choices and as a result that always cost his opponent the battle and that is why Mushashi is considered one of the greatest swordsmen that ever lived.

He like the Samurai knew the importance of maintaining emotional self control and composure and he knew that could either make or break the outcome of the fight and more often than not he was right about that.

Sun Tzu was also really good at strategy as well and I guess that is why both his book and Miyamoto Mushashi's books are required reading at all of the United States military academies and from what I have heard the Japanese have take many of their concepts and applied them to the business world as well.

The idea that women are more interested in romance than sex is so outdated as to be positively Victorian! Most of the women I know are more than capable of fighting for themselves andtheir children. they really aren't looking for a champion at all, a companion yes but you have to get over the idea that women are looking for someone to look after them. We, on the whole, aren't. In fact it's documented that single women live longer than married ones and married men live longer than single men, funny that.

You know what women want? I'll tell you...a man who can make them laugh, never, ever underestimate the ability to laugh a woman into bed.

I'm not being rude but I can't see the relevance of the rest of your post to the OP?

 

[rdonovan1]

The idea that women are more interested in romance than sex is so outdated as to be positively Victorian! Most of the women I know are more than capable of fighting for themselves andtheir children. they really aren't looking for a champion at all, a companion yes but you have to get over the idea that women are looking for someone to look after them. We, on the whole, aren't. In fact it's documented that single women live longer than married ones and married men live longer than single men, funny that.

You know what women want? I'll tell you...a man who can make them laugh, never, ever underestimate the ability to laugh a woman into bed.

I'm not being rude but I can't see the relevance of the rest of your post to the OP?

I think that you are right about the humor thing as both men and women can and do tend to think and act very differently. Part of it relates to biology and evolution while part of it also tends to relate to culture as well and the way that we are raised.

What men may find funny can often be interpreted as being rude and even condensending to women and that is something that I am definitely not down with as I tend to believe that men and women are equals and that women should be treated with courtesy and respect just like you would when you are in the dojo.

I don't know about you, but I personally don't know of any instructors at any dojo that can and will put up with a lack of courtesy and respect and in all the dojo's that I have been in and from what I have studied of the martial arts treating any instructor or dojo with a lack of courtesy and respect is a quick way to get yourself booted out of the dojo and your training either temporarily or permanently suspended or even terminated.

While I have never been to asia as of yet. It is something that I do tend to understand and appreciate as that is just how I was raised.