Dillman vs. TCM

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Couple of questions:

Sure, g'head...

Can someone define 'draining' for those of us who aren't familiar with the concepts here.

In acupuncture theory, the qi/ki flows in particular directions from one meridian to another in a specific sequence. The flow of energy is very similar in this context as the flow of blood through the body... If you press on one part of a blood vessel, stopping the flow of blood at that point, the remainder of the vessel will "drain" of blood as there is no more blood being pumped in to it... Striking many acu-points causes much the same effect (if you accept TCM theory as accurate and correct - some folks don't), stopping the flow of qi/ki at the point of impact, causing a blockage, resulting in draining of the meridian from that point forward... Some strikes are actually intended to reverse the flow, which often results in serious illness or injury... I do not recommend anyone "playing with" or "experimenting with" this idea on their own - only bad things result from it...

Would someone be kind enough to post a comparision of a 'chinese' name and 1 of the abreviated ones?

GB 20 = fengchi = "wind pond"

Wheres GB20 located?

Due to the nature of the point and some of its effects, I think I will allow you to find it on your own... I don't want to list such info on a public forum for anybody and their inbred second cousins to go messing about without proper supervision and guidance... Email me privately (or perhaps DKI Girl), and I will let you know how to find it.

On a related note, is theer a good (reliable) source online for a map of these points?

If you go to Erle Montaigue's site, he has LOTS of downloadable content relating to such topics...

Gambarimasu.

:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

I received an email that Kirk had posted a reply, but I am unable to see it... What happened?

 

[RyuShiKan]

As did I.

However, Moderators can erase any post with out a trace.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1

I received an email that Kirk had posted a reply, but I am unable to see it... What happened?

I tried posting a .pdf that had a lot of point locations on it. The
file was too big, so it wouldn't let the post go through. My
assumption that the code snippet that sends the email notification
is before the code snippet that checks file size.

I DO NOT claim to know any of this stuff! I just find it interesting,
and I enjoy reading the majority of the posts on the subject.
Here's a website that's an html version of the .pdf I was trying
to attach in my post:

http://pressurepointfighting.com/public_html/dim_mak_taiji_points.htm

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan

However, Moderators can erase any post with out a trace.

Yes, but you'd be surprised how much work it is. I want to clarify: We have Moderators, SuperModerators, and Administrators, and not all have the same capabilities. Currently Moderators cannot delete a post, save their own (same as any other member).

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[arnisador]

another point here - our method of spotting uses the name of acu-points if they are acu-points, but if they just happen to be coincidentally located at the same location of an acu-point, they may have a different name...

Can someone give me an example of an acu-point that coincidentally happens to be at the same location as a point you'd strike for other reasons? Or is it as simple as saying that if you kick the side of the knee trying to dislocate it then you'll slide across some acu-points while doing so?

 

[arnisador]

Mark Kline, who posts here occasionally, produced a CD with very detailed info. on the points. I've seen it demo'ed at a DKI camp.

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan

As did I.

However, Moderators can erase any post with out a trace.

Must be a conspiracy! Sounds to me like you are waiting for him to post so you can jump all over him.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by fist of fury



Must be a conspiracy! Sounds to me like you are waiting for him to post so you can jump all over him.

Yeah but don't tell anyone.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Arnisador

Can someone give me an example of an acu-point that coincidentally happens to be at the same location as a point you'd strike for other reasons? Or is it as simple as saying that if you kick the side of the knee trying to dislocate it then you'll slide across some acu-points while doing so?

Well, since GB 20 is what has been discussed up to this point, it seems as good a place as any to remain...

In Yili, we strike a point located at the same place GB 20 is located, but that strike is termed a muscle/nerve strike for us, and is only coincidentally an acu-point. We don't strike it to affect the meridian, but to affect the nerve below it... (i.e. lesser occipital nerve)

And in some cases, such as the knee (which has, by our methods, no less than 9 points surrounding it, with an additional 3 - 6 nearby, depending on where you hit it), it may well be that your target just accidentally hits points on the way...

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Kirk



I tried posting a .pdf that had a lot of point locations on it. The
file was too big, so it wouldn't let the post go through. My
assumption that the code snippet that sends the email notification
is before the code snippet that checks file size.

I DO NOT claim to know any of this stuff! I just find it interesting,
and I enjoy reading the majority of the posts on the subject.
Here's a website that's an html version of the .pdf I was trying
to attach in my post:

http://pressurepointfighting.com/public_html/dim_mak_taiji_points.htm

Now you let the secret out. Now anybody and their inbred second cousins will start trying this stuff. Who knows how many of those type of people are members of this forum.

 

[Matt Stone]

In reviewing this thread for possible errors on my postings, or areas of difficult communication, I happened to re-read the original post:

Originally posted by Rob_Broad

In the locked Nahanchi Thread, I seen a lot of animosity about the differences between TCM and rhe Dillman method. I want to know what differentiates the two so much.

The differences are that TCM is not a method of martial arts striking, and the Dillman method of vital point striking is what it is...

I know withthe Dillman method he took alesson from Ed Parker and categorized nd organized everything. Does TCM do this.

No, actually TCM is completely disorganized and totally confusing... :lol: I understand what you mean when you say this, but from past postings it appears that Mr. Dillman didn't really do anything that was so incredibly innovative, though it would seem so to people who have never had training in either TCM or other vital point striking methods...

I have heard a lot of half-assed remark about the Dillman method, and how it is ineffective, I want to see so arguements stating why this is so, so just, i study this style and this is how it shoudl be.

I think we are well on our way to delineating exactly what the concerns are, and the ways in which DKI's methods differ from other methods that are of a more traditional background...

I would love to see some intelligent conversation on this thread, not a mudlsinging campaign. Whatevr you have to say, I would like to see it backed up.

So far I think this has been the most controversial topic that has had this behaved and civilized of responses... Don't you?

Gambarimasu.

:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by fist of fury

Now you let the secret out. Now anybody and their inbred second cousins will start trying this stuff. Who knows how many of those type of people are members of this forum.

Not so much that it is a secret, but while I know full well how to make chlorine gas bombs on the kitchen burners, and how to make home made grenades from Coke cans and the right type of fertilizer, I don't go out of my way to post that kind of thing on the internet for some 13 year old with an axe to grind to rush out and play with...

I told the interested party to email me, and I would be happy to allow them to have the info for their use...

The inbred second cousin thing was a joke. Hope you understood that...

Gambarimasu.

:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by arnisador



Can someone give me an example of an acu-point that coincidentally happens to be at the same location as a point you'd strike for other reasons? Or is it as simple as saying that if you kick the side of the knee trying to dislocate it then you'll slide across some acu-points while doing so?

I think I may have written this somewhere on this BBs maybe not.

Basically the only time your are hitting an accu-point is when it happens to be the only one in that area, certain places on the arm or leg for example, or if you are using the tip of your finger to hit it exactly on the "Spot". Since using the tip of the finger is rather unlikely we can forget it.

The rest of the time you are mainly hitting "areas" that contain at least a few accu-points.


There are several examples of the "one point" you asked about .
GB32 or (Chung Tu) place on the outside of the thigh, is used by kickboxers often, but is one point that is also used to treat muscular atrophy in the legs

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1



Not so much that it is a secret, but while I know full well how to make chlorine gas bombs on the kitchen burners, and how to make home made grenades from Coke cans and the right type of fertilizer, I don't go out of my way to post that kind of thing on the internet for some 13 year old with an axe to grind to rush out and play with...

I told the interested party to email me, and I would be happy to allow them to have the info for their use...

The inbred second cousin thing was a joke. Hope you understood that...

Gambarimasu.

:asian:

Yes I did. I was just carrying the joke a little further, but most of the inbred second cousins won't see it since they're at home watching Jerry Springer and not at M.A talk.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by fist of fury



Yes I did. I was just carrying the joke a little further, but most of the inbred second cousins won't see it since they're at home watching Jerry Springer and not at M.A talk.

You would be surprised...........there be sum round here I reckon....

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Now be nice...Jon Boy was told his PC had a virus, so grannys making it some chicken soup....

Seriously... -if- I read you guys right, youre saying that the -average- MA when sparing etc will hit several points at the same time, but not usually with enough energy to really do much. That these points require direct manipulation in order to 'work' right.

Now, I'm steping a bit into 'fantasy' land here for a second... I think everyones seen some MA flick where someone hits a shoulder, rib, arm shot and suddenly his attackers 'frozen'. Hit these 3 spots and his lungs seize. these couple spots and his arms go dead.

Now, is this the same stuff, or different? I'm just trying to get my mind around it and seperate the 'fantasy' from the fact.

Also, if I follow (please correct me if I'm wrong here), these points can be both helpful and harmful, it depends on the intent of the one manipulting them.

:asian:

 

[chufeng]

"Also, if I follow (please correct me if I'm wrong here), these points can be both helpful and harmful, it depends on the intent of the one manipulting them."

Yes...that's it exactly.
To really understand it, one must study both aspects: the healing and the harming...If one were struck on a point with proper intent, the correct method of treatment to correct the ensuing damage might be applied at a point far removed from the point struck...in order to determine the damage, one should be able to read the pulse...if you can't do that, you may choose the wrong treatment and cause more damage, hence, RyuShiKan's warning about "draining" a point with massage.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[DKI Girl]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz



Now, I'm steping a bit into 'fantasy' land here for a second... I think everyones seen some MA flick where someone hits a shoulder, rib, arm shot and suddenly his attackers 'frozen'. Hit these 3 spots and his lungs seize. these couple spots and his arms go dead.

Now, is this the same stuff, or different? I'm just trying to get my mind around it and seperate the 'fantasy' from the fact.


:asian:

Actually we have caused someone's lung to shut down once and I have also seen once where the diaphrapm was not functioning and the person was not able to breathe.....Thank goodness that we knew how to fix them too!!

That is of course some of the more dangerous ones that I have seen. There are of course the ones that we have numbed areas and then fixed those too.

dki girl

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by DKI Girl



Actually we have caused someone's lung to shut down once and I have also seen once where the diaphrapm was not functioning and the person was not able to breathe.....Thank goodness that we knew how to fix them too!!
dki girl

How did you fix them?