Death sentence on television?

[ballen0351]

I think you may have missed the point here and I think you may well owe Blade an apology for insulting her.

I didnt insult anyone.

 

[Tez3]

I didnt insult anyone.

Please reread her post carefully.

 

[ballen0351]

I didnt miss the point I just disagree with it.
Just because your able to do something does not mean you should.
Thats like saying well im 21 I can drink well not all 21 yrs olds are responsible enough to drink. Or driving not all 16 yr olds should be driving. Just like not all 20 yrs olds should be having sex.

 

[ballen0351]

Please reread her post carefully.

I reread it still dont see where I was insulting her.

If she was insulted it was not my intent.

 

[CanuckMA]

How? You said if you find out your baby is going to have a disability then it should be aborted. I disagree and so would the Hundreds of thousands of other parents of special needs children.

And not everybody is willing and/or able to care for a disabled child. You would prefer that such a child be brought to term and then languish in foster homes, or in an institution?

Your black and white, holier than thou attitude is rather childish and insulting.

 

[Tez3]

Ballen I think the problem is that you have no empathy at all and can't put yourself in anyone else positition to understand how they feel. It's all black and white to you, no shades of grey at all. You can't read Blade's post and see any pain, you don't understand what she is saying.
I suspect it's a men thing hence your views being so fixed.

 

[MJS]

I'm not sure what your trying to say here. I said the same thing you just did.

Sorry, let me be a bit more clear...

1) For the most part, you and I are on the same page. Difference being, I'm not as anti abortion as you are.

2) I made the comment about birth control, because you said it wasn't 100% and I said that there're people out there who are using it and they're not pregnant. I simply stated that its all how its used.

3) I feel that sex ed is important, you said you're anti sex ed to a point. We agree that a parent should take on that task, I was simply stating the fact that there're parents out there that dont teach it, therefore, someone should.

 

[ballen0351]

And not everybody is willing and/or able to care for a disabled child. You would prefer that such a child be brought to term and then languish in foster homes, or in an institution?

Your black and white, holier than thou attitude is rather childish and insulting.

I find your attitude that its ok to kill an innocent baby is revolting. I guess where even except I dont have the blood of dead babies on my hands

 

[ballen0351]

Ballen I think the problem is that you have no empathy at all and can't put yourself in anyone else positition to understand how they feel. It's all black and white to you, no shades of grey at all. You can't read Blade's post and see any pain, you don't understand what she is saying.
I suspect it's a men thing hence your views being so fixed.

I have more empathy than you. Im the one NOT trying to kill babies remember

 

[ballen0351]

Sorry, let me be a bit more clear...

1) For the most part, you and I are on the same page. Difference being, I'm not as anti abortion as you are.

2) I made the comment about birth control, because you said it wasn't 100% and I said that there're people out there who are using it and they're not pregnant. I simply stated that its all how its used.

3) I feel that sex ed is important, you said you're anti sex ed to a point. We agree that a parent should take on that task, I was simply stating the fact that there're parents out there that dont teach it, therefore, someone should.

Im not anti-sex ed Im glad its taught. In a perfect world it should be left up to parents but I know they wont do it.

 

[Tez3]

I have more empathy than you. Im the one NOT trying to kill babies remember

Oh boy now there's an accusation and a half.

and there ladies and gentlemen we have the crux of the matter, when one doesn't understand how people feel, when one is floundering in the morass of self righteousness and can't find the way out, the best thing to do is attack the person you disagree with, you make emotive statements accusing people of trying to murder innocent babies, you state that they want disabled children dead and children put down like unwanted pets. Demonise that which you don't understand, stand high on your ivory tower ignoring the pain and suffering of others because all that matters in the end is that you can look yourself in the mirror and say 'I am right'.

Well, matey boy, that's a load of bollocks.

 

[MJS]

Im not anti-sex ed Im glad its taught. In a perfect world it should be left up to parents but I know they wont do it.

I was just going on what you said here. But, perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying. No biggie. Anyways, as I said, I think for the most part, we're on the same page.

It may've been you, but in another post, I saw someone say that something along the lines of adoption vs abortion, being taught in the schools as well, so that kids will know there're other options. Yeah, I can agree with that. I think the education as a whole, should encompass alot more than what it does.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

wow crazy thread.
I think its obvious that this conversaiton is so personal for so many different reasons that it seems almost impossible for anyone to agree.

It reminds me of the old saying a conservative is a liberal who has been robbed, and a liberal is a conservative who has been thrown in jail.

only this is exploded into the most extreme degree.

I am not against abortion, but It does appear to me that way to many people have become nonchalant about it.
I would so much rather provide easy long term contraception for high risk people..
its one thing I would not mind my taxes going for.. they have those all kidns of solutions from 1 year to permanent solutions and everything in between. I think it would be in everyones best interest to provide these options for free in areas that statistically show a high rate of unwanted pregnancies, and high rates of single mother, and teen mother births.

I am curious how well sex education works to be honest. I think that knowledge is great, but I have never seen any figures that shows that sex education has prevented teen sex, or unwanted pregnances, as opposed to increasing a kids curiosity.
I know my kids will have the talk from my wife and I long before its an option in school.
I think that parental involvement is way more important then sex education by itself. I think the two combined are probably way more successful, but once again I have never seen any studies done on it.

I personally do not believe in the value of human life simply because its alive. Rather I believe in the value of human life for what it does. I have no problem with the death penalty, and believe it is vastly underused in our society. I do however think that Abortions are vastly overused, and while there are definitely many scenarios that I would not have a problem with someone getting an abortion, I think that there are way to many options to prevent it from becoming a problem in the first place.
Like was mentioned earlier I would be willing to bet that most people understand that having sex, even with temporary birth control can lead to pregnancy, and are just to ignorant to make a wise choice, or to selfish to make a wise choice in regards to their long term options in life, hell regardless of the risk of pregnancy consider the sexually transmitted diseases and illnesses that can be passed. Its the ignorance of youth, and it really is not a good argument for explaining abortions ad nauseum. In most aspects of our society ignorance is no defense, yet here it seems to be used often as a common defense..
/shrug

its a touchy subject because its life or death, and so many people have a directsay simply because someone made a life or death situation.. I can fault anyones thoughts one way or the other.

 

[billc]

It was my idea to teach adoption in schools as well as what I termed 9-drop-walk, where it is only 9 months to have the baby, drop the baby at any local fire station or hospital emergency room then walk away. Going the adoption route or dropping the baby off at the E.R. is less traumatic than an abortion. It also has the added benefit of making the womans first wanted baby a happy occasion as opposed to remebering the first baby that was aborted.

 

[Tez3]

It was my idea to teach adoption in schools as well as what I termed 9-drop-walk, where it is only 9 months to have the baby, drop the baby at any local fire station or hospital emergency room then walk away. Going the adoption route or dropping the baby off at the E.R. is less traumatic than an abortion. It also has the added benefit of making the womans first wanted baby a happy occasion as opposed to remebering the first baby that was aborted.

You have a funny idea of women. Women who have given up their children for adoption have spent years of pain and misery wondering what their child is doing, they don't just give birth and be able to forget all about the baby you know. Separating a mother from her new born can be agonising.

I agree adoption is a very good solution but it's not nearly as easy as you seem to think it is. I've seen children who've been adopted by brilliant families but still wonder why they were abandoned by their birth mother, some mothers who gave their babies up regretted it all their lives.

Push the adoption option by all means but don't make out it's as simple as giving birth then just handing it over, it isn't.

 

[ballen0351]

Oh boy now there's an accusation and a half.

and there ladies and gentlemen we have the crux of the matter, when one doesn't understand how people feel, when one is floundering in the morass of self righteousness and can't find the way out, the best thing to do is attack the person you disagree with, you make emotive statements accusing people of trying to murder innocent babies, you state that they want disabled children dead and children put down like unwanted pets. Demonise that which you don't understand, stand high on your ivory tower ignoring the pain and suffering of others because all that matters in the end is that you can look yourself in the mirror and say 'I am right'.

Well, matey boy, that's a load of bollocks.

How much pain and suffering is the baby going thru as its sucked out and chopped up?

 

[ballen0351]

I would so much rather provide easy long term contraception for high risk people..
its one thing I would not mind my taxes going for.. they have those all kidns of solutions from 1 year to permanent solutions and everything in between. I think it would be in everyones best interest to provide these options for free in areas that statistically show a high rate of unwanted pregnancies, and high rates of single mother, and teen mother births.

I agree with that.

 

[ballen0351]

You have a funny idea of women. Women who have given up their children for adoption have spent years of pain and misery wondering what their child is doing, they don't just give birth and be able to forget all about the baby you know. Separating a mother from her new born can be agonising.

I agree adoption is a very good solution but it's not nearly as easy as you seem to think it is. I've seen children who've been adopted by brilliant families but still wonder why they were abandoned by their birth mother, some mothers who gave their babies up regretted it all their lives.

Push the adoption option by all means but don't make out it's as simple as giving birth then just handing it over, it isn't.

So why is it so hard for a woman to give an unwanted baby away for adoption but they have no problems walking into a clinic and having an abortion?

We have a clinic about 6 blocks from my office. The parking lot is packed 6 days a week. All day long I see woman in and out. Now Im sure they do other things there besides abortions like provide birth control but Ive been on the abortion side waiting room to remove anti-abortion protesters about 3 times and Ive seen as many as 25 woman at a time in there.

 

[Tez3]

How much pain and suffering is the baby going thru as its sucked out and chopped up?

As I said...post up emotive statements designed to make people who want women to have the choice look like bad people.

In this country the NHS makes sure the woman understands what will happen, it's explained to her step by step, the decision however is hers, it's her conscience, her body, her health. It's not your decision what a woman should do, I respect that you feel strongly about this but you should stop trying to paint those of us who feel it's up to the woman as inhuman.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Abortion/Pages/How-is-it-performed.aspx

The choices I make for myself I wouldn't force on anyone else and as I haven't told you what my choice would be you don't know. I would want every child to be a wanted child in a happy home but I accept that this isn't going to happen, I respect the fact that people must make their own choices. I agree that adoption should be made easier, it's very hard here to adopt and I agree with making sure there's information available on the alternatives to abortion because I believe in a woman being able to chose. Whatever they chose however is for them alone to decide. Medical staff who believe abortion is wrong excuse themselves from such operations, they are given respect for this as they respect their colleagues who do perform abortions. It's a matter of private belief.

Sex education in the Netherlands is started at a very early age in schools, they have the lowest rate of unplanned teenage pregnancies and the highest average age at which teenagers lose their virginity..19 so follow their lead and stop being such a prudish country.
http://www.teachers.tv/videos/holland-sex-education

 

[Tez3]

So why is it so hard for a woman to give an unwanted baby away for adoption but they have no problems walking into a clinic and having an abortion?

Think about that one.

We have a clinic about 6 blocks from my office. The parking lot is packed 6 days a week. All day long I see woman in and out. Now Im sure they do other things there besides abortions like provide birth control but Ive been on the abortion side waiting room to remove anti-abortion protesters about 3 times and Ive seen as many as 25 woman at a time in there.

Nothing like jumping to conclusions

I really cannot believe you are that naive about child birth, pregnancies etc, or even about women in general. Talk about men are from Mars!