Komen caves...

[ballen0351]

My wife got a mammogram there.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

That's good for her because everything I have read says no PP clinic actually has a mammogram machine they just do referrals to other places. Like. My doc doesn't do lab work they refer me to the lab corp office down the street.

 

[billc]

Some thoughts on what the Komen foundation did wrong...http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/02/03/lessons-from-the-komen-foundation-fiasco/

Komen was unprepared for Planned Parenthood’s reaction. Go back and review Jill Stanek’s post on Komen’s initial decision. According to her, Komen wanted to make its grant criteria decision quietly and move on. Komen did not anticipate that Planned Parenthood would make sure the decision was not only not quiet, but that it would become a firestorm for an organization that, up to now, has enjoyed decade after decade of positive press. Komen might have been complacent, but more importantly, it was naive. Today’s statement, in which Komen reiterates its desire to move on, suggests that that naivete has not been punctured. Given Planned Parenthood’s history and leadership, there was no way it would take any adverse decision lying down. No one should have expected it to do anything but fight, so Komen should have gamed out Planned Parenthood’s likely reactions, and planned its own counter actions.

Komen was overmatched. Since its founding in 1982, the Komen Foundation has been led by Nancy Brinker, the sister of breast cancer victim Susan G. Komen. The foundation is largely a labor of love taken on in the late Komen’s memory. The foundation has enjoyed friendly relations with everyone for decades, both because it is a labor of love and because it is apolitical. It has no obvious enemies, and raises money for an unquestionably good cause. By contrast, Planned Parenthood has been around for more than 70 years, and was founded by progressive eugenicist Margaret Sanger. Planned Parenthood was political from its inception, and devious about pursuing its goals, and has spent its entire lifetime battling political enemies and establishing, and in some cases buying, its friends in politics and the media. It doesn’t donate to Democrats such as Sen. Patty Murray out of the kindness of its heart; it donates to Democrats so they will advance its interests and, when fights arise, defend it from external threats. Planned Parenthood’s current leader, Cecile Richards, is the daughter of late Texas Gov. Ann Richards, and is probably as media savvy as her mother was. The mainstream media is, by and large, sympathetic to Planned Parenthood and circles around it whenever it runs into problems. The media says very little about the various scandals surrounding Planned Parenthood all over the country. So in making a decision that Planned Parenthood would not like, Komen found itself at war with one of the most media savvy and politically sophisticated organizations in the country.

Some more info. on the attack on the Komen Foundation:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/the_wrath_of_the_abortion_movement_unleashed_on_komen.html

But Komen did not completely cut Planned Parenthood out of current funding or exclude Planned Parenthood from future funding. Nor did they reverse the original decision and decide to re-fund Planned Parenthood in the future. They merely reversed their decision in favor of considering Planned Parenthood's eligibility for future grants. The Komen foundation is rightfully concerned that Planned Parenthood is the focus of federal and state investigations for financial irregularities, fraud, sex trafficking, failure to comply with laws requiring reporting minor's sexual abuse and parental notification for abortion, as well as substandard medical care...


The organization claims that abortion comprises only 3% of their services, but this is statistical manipulation. If a woman shows up for abortion, she can receive a pap smear, STD test, hemoglobin and blood type, all related to the abortion. Planned Parenthood can claim that they have provided four services in addition to the abortion. Planned Parenthood is also a major purveyor of birth control pills, a risk factor for breast cancer acknowledged but underestimated on Komen's own web site.

 

[granfire]

Some thoughts on what the Komen foundation did wrong...http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/02/03/lessons-from-the-komen-foundation-fiasco/

Some more info. on the attack on the Komen Foundation:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/the_wrath_of_the_abortion_movement_unleashed_on_komen.html

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340153

In case you get bored.
That's what women have to say about Komen and the pink thing. There are a lot of reasons to not like Komen. the PP thing was just the last nail in the coffin.

 

[ballen0351]

Not sure what a bunch of horse people prove. I can find just as many woman that are pro komen and just as many against PP.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340153

In case you get bored.
That's what women have to say about Komen and the pink thing. There are a lot of reasons to not like Komen. the PP thing was just the last nail in the coffin.

 

[granfire]

Not sure what a bunch of horse people prove. I can find just as many woman that are pro komen and just as many against PP.

Those are horse women. Educated and not, unemployed to corner office, many of whom has dealt with breast cancer in one form or another. Or with the Komen foundation. Or with PP.

You know, the demographic that is actually affected - most affected - by this discussion, or rather the topic of the discussion.

It is a hint for billi to actually go to he source past the propaganda he relies on.

 

[ballen0351]

And again I can find just as many woman that disagree with you. My mother aunt and grand mother all have battled breast cancer my grandmother lost. My aunt is a huge komen supporter does the walks and fundraisers every year since she won her battle 3 years ago. I still don't see your point. You can find people out there that dislike anything and everything.

Those are horse women. Educated and not, unemployed to corner office, many of whom has dealt with breast cancer in one form or another. Or with the Komen foundation. Or with PP.

You know, the demographic that is actually affected - most affected - by this discussion, or rather the topic of the discussion.

It is a hint for billi to actually go to he source past the propaganda he relies on.

 

[Josh Oakley]

That's good for her because everything I have read says no PP clinic actually has a mammogram machine they just do referrals to other places. Like. My doc doesn't do lab work they refer me to the lab corp office down the street.

Doublechecked with the wife. I was wrong. They do the physical breast exam at planned parenthood, and refer the actual mammogram.

 

[ballen0351]

Oh and by the way tell my father that woman are the only demographic really effected by breast cancer. It effects husbands, fathers and sons just as severely. Tell my grandfather he's not effected when my grandmother died after 41 years of marriage. Oh wait you can't he only lasted 2 months after she passed away. Went from healthy to dead in 2 months.

 

[ballen0351]

Doublechecked with the wife. I was wrong. They do the physical breast exam at planned parenthood, and refer the actual mammogram.

Im sure its more cost effective for them. That's what most doc offices do too. We have a large imaging center they do xray mri mammograms pretty much all that in one place and all the doc offices just refer people to it.

 

[granfire]

Oh and by the way tell my father that woman are the only demographic really effected by breast cancer. It effects husbands, fathers and sons just as severely. Tell my grandfather he's not effected when my grandmother died after 41 years of marriage. Oh wait you can't he only lasted 2 months after she passed away. Went from healthy to dead in 2 months.

Yes, indeed. (I did mention this like a bazillion posts ago)

So another reason why the pink flood is majorly annoying. Guys can get it too, and most of them don't have tatas.

My condolences. Cancer is a menace.

(and yes, we get caught up in this mess. Cancer is not discriminatory. Ok, some cancers can only be had by one gender, but there are some that are sold to us as gender specific that simply are not. Like cervical cancer, many times caused by HPV has a male counterpart, same as breast cancer)

 

[granfire]

And again I can find just as many woman that disagree with you. My mother aunt and grand mother all have battled breast cancer my grandmother lost. My aunt is a huge komen supporter does the walks and fundraisers every year since she won her battle 3 years ago. I still don't see your point. You can find people out there that dislike anything and everything.

The foundation gave something to them that helped them battle cancer. That is all fine and dandy. The foundation is not all bad. By far. But it is not the only group to raise money, though they have started to bill themselves as such.

Legal battles over the word 'cure' should leave a bad taste in anybody's mouth.

But frankly, if the charity fits your bill, support them, by all means.
But the point is, when you put women's health on your banner, stand by it.

But there are better, less commercial fundraisers than the Komen foundation.

But the ladies in your family, if it helps them in their fight, more power to them. I tip my cap to their fighting spirit.

 

[ballen0351]

Im not talking about males getting cancer im talking about a husband delaing with losing a wife, children losing a mother both of which are just as effected

Yes, indeed. (I did
mention this like a bazillion posts ago)

So another reason why the pink flood is majorly annoying. Guys can get it too, and most of them don't have tatas.

My condolences. Cancer is a menace.

(and yes, we get caught up in this mess. Cancer is not discriminatory. Ok, some cancers can only be had by one gender, but there are some that are sold to us as gender specific that simply are not. Like cervical cancer, many times caused by HPV has a male counterpart, same as breast cancer)

 

[granfire]

Im not talking about males getting cancer im talking about a husband delaing with losing a wife, children losing a mother both of which are just as effected

I am not quiet following you.

If you are talking about losing a family member, yes, been there, done that. Come April it will be four years since my sister died.
Her becoming sick about killed my parents.
Oh, and my stepmother got it at the same time. Bad, too.
She found some fighting spirit and is still with us. Maybe the only reason my dad is still up and running, though a sad shadow of his former self.

 

[ballen0351]

Yes that's what im talking about. You made the comment about breast cancer only impacted woman and I was saying it effects alot more people then that.

I am not quiet following you.

If you are talking about losing a family member, yes, been there, done that. Come April it will be four years since my sister died.
Her becoming sick about killed my parents.
Oh, and my stepmother got it at the same time. Bad, too.
She found some fighting spirit and is still with us. Maybe the only reason my dad is still up and running, though a sad shadow of his former self.

 

[granfire]

Yes that's what im talking about. You made the comment about breast cancer only impacted woman and I was saying it effects alot more people then that.

Cancer affects the whole family. Heck, any terminal disease affects the people around the patient.

However, men can also get breast cancer. Violently! The pink flood does draw a good bit of attention away from that.

But:
The point is not to argue about who suffers more from cancer.

The point is that a reasonably good charity lost sight of it's mission, bowing to political pressure.
If they had done so in a less conspicuous way (like canceling their checks to Pen State as well) maybe not much would have come from it.

Now this has irked a lot of people, from all walks of life. This had drawn attention to the charity's spending habits.
It has also drawn attention to their attempts to monopolizing parts of the English language. I am sure the pink thing has been under fire as well.
Not to mention the habit of branding commercial products, which studies have long shown that it increases the sales for the company selling the pink stuff in the month of October. A lot of fishy stuff going on there as well!

The foundation started off with the best of intentions and has turned breast cancer into big business.


Regardless, I wish all teir walk for the cure participants that they are able to complete many more in the future.

 

[Carol]

Cancer affects the whole family. Heck, any terminal disease affects the people around the patient.

However, men can also get breast cancer. Violently! The pink flood does draw a good bit of attention away from that.

This is basic marketing. Iconic branding has everything to do about promise and nothing to do with accuracy.

When was the last time Coke said their drinks were a "brown liquid"? Isn't that an accurate statement? But they never say that. Coke promises something...fun, excitement, etc.

 

[granfire]

This is basic marketing. Iconic branding has everything to do about promise and nothing to do with accuracy.

When was the last time Coke said their drinks were a "brown liquid"? Isn't that an accurate statement? But they never say that. Coke promises something...fun, excitement, etc.

Well, Komen is promising 'the Cure' to the point of trademarking the word.

Coke is not a charity....

 

[Monroe]

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/02/03/running-for-pink-ribbons-inc/

“Where is the research money going?” asks writer and social activist, Eleanor Leopold, who points out that the focus is always on how much money is being poured into research, not what is coming out. The lack of coordination amongst researchers globally is another source of frustration, as is the focus of that research, as well as the fact that Komen only spends 24 per cent of income on research. So too is the seeming lack of interest in breast cancer prevention or work with environmental justice groups—which stands in direct opposition to the sources of much of Komen’s funding.

It’s been criticized for allying itself with purveyors of goods that are harmful to women’s heath and the environment, including cosmetics, food products, gasoline.

I stopped buying pink products after reading Pink Ribbons, Inc.: Breast Cancer and the Politics of Philanthropy in 2007. I'll give money to cancer research. But not the pink foundation.

 

[billc]

A quick question, why does everyone defend planned parenthood? Sure, you can say they provide care for women who need access to abortions and other medical issues, but why defend them and not support another organization that does the same thing without the vile origins?

For example, if you had a new healthcare provider that did the same thing as planned parenthood, but was called say, E.U.H.L. Women's centers, and they had most of their clinics in minority neighbor hoods, I am sure at first glance many here would support their efforts. However, if it was discovered that E.U.H.L. Women's centers were founded by a women who was a German National Socialist workers party member, (nazi) I am also sure that they would be quickly run out of town, and rightly so. I don't think you would see arguments about these clinics providing a needed service in minority neihborhoods, and the other arguments presented to defend planned parenthood. So why defend planned parenthood, an organization that was founded by a socialist who wanted to limit minority populations, a sentiment that is german national socialist in nature if not in fact?

And for my fans out there, another copy, and paste...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/the_lefts_genocide_of_minorities.html

Founder Margaret Sanger was influenced by Malthusian eugenics, and noted eugenicists were on the PP board, including Alan Guttmacher, vice president of the American Eugenics Society[SUP]1[/SUP]. Sanger's lover and mentor, Havelock Ellis, was a follower of Francis Galton, a leader in eugenics[SUP]2[/SUP].

In a speech to the Fabian Society in London in 1915, she said that "Tho [sic] I was rocked in the cradle of Socialism -- for my father was one of the early pioneers of Socialist thot [sic] in USA yet with my nursing experience among women -- I could see the [great] undermining & weakening of that class both physically & mentally [through] ignorance of the care of their own bodies & especially the physiological functioning of the sex organs" (Fabian Hall Speech). Sanger wrote articles for The Masses and other socialist publications. In her autobiography, she explained why she joined the Socialist Party: "A religion without a name was spreading over the country. The converts were liberals, Socialists, anarchists, revolutionists of all shades. They were fixed in their faith in the coming revolution as ever any Primitive Christian in the immediate establishment of the Kingdom of God. Some could even predict the exact date of its advent"[SUP]8[/SUP].

Another important socialist connection for Sanger was W.E.B. Du Bois.

One of Sanger's first clinics opened in Harlem in 1929. To give it legitimacy, she invited prominent black ministers, social workers, and journalists to be on the advisory council. In 1939 she started the "Negro Project," headed by Clarence Gamble of Procter & Gamble. Gamble suggested that she hire a black minister to preach the gospel of birth control in the mode of a religious revival and that she hire a black physician and nurse to administer the birth control. This would allay the suspicions of white supremacy in the black community, even though a photograph of Sanger addressing a Ku Klux Klan meeting is available. In her correspondence to Gamble, Sanger said: "We do not want the word to get out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten that out"[SUP]3[/SUP].

Planned Parenthood itself displayed amazing complicity in racial targeting when a young man associated with The Advocate, a student publication at UCLA, called its affiliates in seven states in 2007 saying he wanted to make a donation. Several of their officials were eager to accept the money -- even when the donor stipulated that he wanted it to be used only to kill black preborn babies. A Planned Parenthood affiliate in Idaho expressed excitement over the gift, despite the fact that the donor was motivated by racism. The phone call was recorded:

Caller: Okay, so-so the abortion could -- could be -- you know -- I could give money specifically for a black baby. That would-that would be the purpose.
Planned Parenthood: Yeah. Absolutely, um, if you wanted to designate that you wanted your gift to be used to help an African-American woman in need, um, then we would certainly, ah, make sure that that gift was earmarked specifically for that purpose.
​

A 2010 report from the Guttmacher Institute confirmed the disproportionate minority statistics: of all abortions, non-Hispanic black women accounted for 30%, Hispanic women 25%, and 3% members of other races, including American Indians[SUP]11[/SUP].

With this sort of origin, why not champion a more neutral provider?

 

[granfire]

A quick question, why does everyone defend planned parenthood? Sure, you can say they provide care for women who need access to abortions and other medical issues, but why defend them and not support another organization that does the same thing without the vile origins?

For example, if you had a new healthcare provider that did the same thing as planned parenthood, but was called say, E.U.H.L. Women's centers, and they had most of their clinics in minority neighbor hoods, I am sure at first glance many here would support their efforts. However, if it was discovered that E.U.H.L. Women's centers were founded by a women who was a German National Socialist workers party member, (nazi) I am also sure that they would be quickly run out of town, and rightly so. I don't think you would see arguments about these clinics providing a needed service in minority neihborhoods, and the other arguments presented to defend planned parenthood. So why defend planned parenthood, an organization that was founded by a socialist who wanted to limit minority populations, a sentiment that is german national socialist in nature if not in fact?

And for my fans out there, another copy, and paste...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/the_lefts_genocide_of_minorities.html










With this sort of origin, why not champion a more neutral provider?

Who says that a 'more neutral provider' is not championed?

How ever, this is the discussion about Komen and PP, and not about any other providers for women's health care.
In this context I do champion PP over Komen as the people who actually walk the walk.