Death sentence on television?

[Blade96]

Technically it is not her body that we are concerned with but the body of the baby inside of the mother, two distinct entities. The baby is not one of her limbs and it is not an organ. At a certain point it can be removed with no lasting harm, in most cases.

But it is inside her body, so its not really separate as we define the term. Should people have the right to use other people bodies, without their consent?

I still dont believe being alive is always better than death. If that makes me a horrible person, well I guess I'm a horrible person.

 

[Blade96]

The least harm is to allow the baby to be born. The most harm is killing the baby. that is a pretty good place to start. I have to go, nighty night.

Not true. Everything I ever read suggest that an abortion at a reputable hospital with very good doctors is safer than childbirth. What made you think childbirth causes the least harm?

I would however like to know what did I do to luckykboxer to make him put me on his ignore list. I never ignore anyone. Far as I feel, everyone has an opinion worth reading, even if i dont agree with it, and no one here ever did anything to me, so I don't have anyone on an ignore list.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Not true. Everything I ever read suggest that an abortion at a reputable hospital with very good doctors is safer than childbirth. What made you think childbirth causes the least harm?

I would however like to know what did I do to luckykboxer to make him put me on his ignore list. I never ignore anyone. Far as I feel, everyone has an opinion worth reading, even if i dont agree with it, and no one here ever did anything to me, so I don't have anyone on an ignore list.

your not on my ignore list.
I saw no name on the quote that was listed and figured it was because someone was on my ignore list, I have a couple people there.
somehow I missed that comment in your previous post.. I still think its a horrible comment and feeling that you think someone is better off dead then alive, if you feel that way about yourself I could care less, but to think that about another person is just sick.

 

[CanuckMA]

My mother has been in a home since my father died, nearly 8 years ago. She's down to about 70lbs. Sleeps 20+ hours a day. When she's awake, mentally, she's mostly not there. That is not life.

As part of the daily morning service, we say a prayer for the sick. My mother's name was a fixture on the list. A few years ago, I asked the Rabbi to remove her name. When he asked if she was better, all I could say was that she was not, but to keep praying for her to get better may simply help prolong something cruel.

So no, life is not always better.

 

[granfire]

My mother has been in a home since my father died, nearly 8 years ago. She's down to about 70lbs. Sleeps 20+ hours a day. When she's awake, mentally, she's mostly not there. That is not life.

As part of the daily morning service, we say a prayer for the sick. My mother's name was a fixture on the list. A few years ago, I asked the Rabbi to remove her name. When he asked if she was better, all I could say was that she was not, but to keep praying for her to get better may simply help prolong something cruel.

So no, life is not always better.

Nothing more cruel than having to watch the withering shell of a formerly strong individual linger for years.

 

[Blade96]

your not on my ignore list.
I saw no name on the quote that was listed and figured it was because someone was on my ignore list, I have a couple people there.
somehow I missed that comment in your previous post.. I still think its a horrible comment and feeling that you think someone is better off dead then alive, if you feel that way about yourself I could care less, but to think that about another person is just sick.

Thats ok. I read your comment and where it said it was probably someone on your ignore list and I assumed it was me since i had made the comment.

As for the comment, its ok. We're all of different beliefs and backgrounds and nationalities, its almost inevidable we will offend each other with beliefs and comments from time to time. I believe I am not worth more than my cat. I dont believe humans are more important/valuable than animals. Others might find that offensive and it might be a Wtf comment to them. I think whats important is how we can handle it.

My mother has been in a home since my father died, nearly 8 years ago. She's down to about 70lbs. Sleeps 20+ hours a day. When she's awake, mentally, she's mostly not there. That is not life.

As part of the daily morning service, we say a prayer for the sick. My mother's name was a fixture on the list. A few years ago, I asked the Rabbi to remove her name. When he asked if she was better, all I could say was that she was not, but to keep praying for her to get better may simply help prolong something cruel.

So no, life is not always better.

same with my bro's gf's mother. She had alzheimers and her mind had been totally erased. She just lay in a bed and didnt know anyone not even her own family. Naw. Not living. Just existing. She finally died. I think it was a blessing.

I have my belief like that, but I do understand why people would find it offensive. I also understand why some don't like the idea of abortions. They are not pretty. In a better world we should have no need for any of it.Unfortunately, we don't have that.

 

[Tez3]

Blade, it's me that's on his list, he sent me a PM called me names saying I was a piece of work and said he was putting me on ignore. Of course if I'm quoted he still has to read it. The posts that annoyed him so much were where I was supportrf an autistic lad on here.

 

[Archangel M]

I knew that the "what about my sick grandmother" stories would arise and it doen't change what I said. My grandmother died a slow death of cancer too. And if I had a magic wand that could have cured her and granted her more life I would have waved it. Why? Because life is better than death.

I had a friend die of cancer too young in 2010. He went fighting all the way. If at some point he thought that his suffering was too much to bear and wanted to end it I would have respected that because it was HIS DECISION. I didn't decide that HIS LIFE wasn't better than death and sneak into his room and "chop him up and vaccum him out".

Anyway. The argument about aborting a "non-viable" or severely sick fetus is a very small segment of this issue. By and large the "suffering" is about the inconvience of being pregnant.

 

[Tez3]

I knew that the "what about my sick grandmother" stories would arise and it doen't change what I said. My grandmother died a slow death of cancer too. And if I had a magic wand that could have cured her and granted her more life I would have waved it. Why? Because life is better than death.

I had a friend die of cancer too young in 2010. He went fighting all the way. If at some point he thought that his suffering was too much to bear and wanted to end it I would have respected that because it was HIS DECISION. I didn't decide that HIS LIFE wasn't better than death and sneak into his room and "chop him up and vaccum him out".

Anyway. The argument about aborting a "non-viable" or severely sick fetus is a very small segment of this issue. By and large the "suffering" is about the inconvience of being pregnant.

The thing is though is that it's a decision only the woman who is pregnant can take. No one can know what it's like for that person to be pregnant. If as you say abortions are being done for convenience then far more education is needed to stop women getting pregnant in the first place, that's the best possible solution. All I can say is education, education, education, closely followed by availablility of contraception. You need a national campaign of sex education, it affects everyone if you have young unmarried women getting pregnant so never mind the parents, teach it in schools and teach it early. Make it a legitimate school subject without religious teachings, make it a science subject, show kids how to use contraception and teach boys it's their responsibility too.
Make it easier for girls to either keep their babies or have them adopted if they are unwanted, make sure the girls have support, it's no good banning abortions and then leaving the girls to hang out to dry.

Give women the choice and support them either way, it's their bodies after all. It's a private choice not a public one, each will choose what their conscience tells them to. We are all owed that.

 

[Archangel M]

I don't buy the "her body" argument. A baby is an individual living being. When did I change from being the equivalent of my mothers spleen? Life is not a matter of being attached to an umbilical cord or not.

 

[ballen0351]

Out of curiosity, how do you know that its not just as difficult for the female to have an abortion? Obviously, I'm not a female, but I highly doubt that going thru that procedure is a picnic.



Out of curiosity, why are you removing the protesters? Reading your posts, I get the impression that you're against abortion, so if thats the case, I figured you wouldn't mind them there, spreading the words that you're spreading here.

And those 25 women are probably part of the 95% that i listed in my stats earlier. But I suppose theres nothing that can be done about that, unless some law was passed, stating that females couldn't have an abortion as a means of bc, because they didn't use any other form.

I dont think its hard for them at all Ive been in the clincs Ive seen them laughing at the protesters, chatting on cell phones. I know of woman that have had 2 or 3 or more abortions. If its that hard on them they dont show it. Im not saying its not hard for some people but for the ones that use it as a form of birth control it seems quite easy.
I remove protesters because it’s my job. As a law enforcement officer I swore an oath do protect the laws of my state and not to use my personal beliefs to dictate which laws I uphold. Like it or not I don’t get to make that call. The law is the law. I’ve taken many actions in my job that go against my personal beliefs. The hardest thing I’ve ever done in this job besides taking a man’s life was protecting the Westboro Baptist Church as they protested a funeral of 2 little boys that drown in a frozen pond a week earlier. Same 2 little boys I jumped in that frozen pond to try and save. The boy’s father was serving in Iraq at the time of the boy’s death which is why the Westboro Nutballs showed up. They had some of the most evil signs I’ve ever seen but it’s their 1st amendment right to free speech and I had no choice but to stand guard to protect them. I had to physically remove one of the dead boy’s uncles when he tried to attack a protester. They came a second time to protest the death of an Army Capt. That died in Iraq but only like 3 protesters showed up so they didn’t stay long and it was rather uneventful.

For my friends outside the US who might not know who the Westboro Baptist Church is they are a group of people that travel all over the US attending funerals of troops killed in the wars. They hold signs that say things like "thank God for dead solders", "God hates America" and they had special signs for the kid’s funereal one said "your kids died because you’re terrorists" "You and your kids will burn in hell." They claim that because we allow Gays to have rights and we allow abortion in this country that God in punishing us by killing our troops. I think they just do it to see what the police will do and they hope we will stop them from protesting so can sue us. I think it’s all about money to them but they claim otherwise.

 

[Tez3]

I don't buy the "her body" argument. A baby is an individual living being. When did I change from being the equivalent of my mothers spleen? Life is not a matter of being attached to an umbilical cord or not.[/quote]


Under the law here that's precisely what it is, there has been general acceptance here of that definition. Some legal definition is needed because it is a matter of opinion as to when an embryo becomes a baby, you may believe it is a baby from the minute of conception when it's literally only cells, others believe it's when the mother is six months or more into pregnancy, others still not until the baby is born. Some cultures believe it's not a baby until several weeks after its been born.
As I said it's each to their conscience and beliefs.

 

[ballen0351]

Someone doesn't like me. Oh well. I still believe that death in cases is better than life. If we didnt believe that why would we put down our pets when they lose the good quality of life?

I have seen some of the Worst living conditions in the world when I was in the Marines I was sent to Haiti for 3 months. Not the Haiti that’s just had billions of dollars sent to them but 15 years ago Haiti. You would be hard pressed to find a more poor country. I saw mothers with 5 and 6 kids living in small roadside shacks and have not eaten in days and you know what I saw. Even in all that despair and gloom and doom I saw kids playing, smiling, singing songs. I’m sure their life is worse than any life in a great country like Canada or the US or the UK. So this argument about having a bad life when living in some of the top 10 countries in the world just does not hold water. I can go into some of the poorest neighborhood in Washington Dc an you know what most houses have TV, heat, kitchens, and food. If I go into a Govt housing project now they are In the process of giving everyone the Internet, free Cell phones, Air conditioning, most have cars, Dishwashers, so the argument that life is so bad just don’t work.

 

[ballen0351]

My mother has been in a home since my father died, nearly 8 years ago. She's down to about 70lbs. Sleeps 20+ hours a day. When she's awake, mentally, she's mostly not there. That is not life.

As part of the daily morning service, we say a prayer for the sick. My mother's name was a fixture on the list. A few years ago, I asked the Rabbi to remove her name. When he asked if she was better, all I could say was that she was not, but to keep praying for her to get better may simply help prolong something cruel.

So no, life is not always better.

But she had a chance to live her life. She had kids, a husband, people that loved her. Why not give that same chance to others?

 

[ballen0351]

Nothing more cruel than having to watch the withering shell of a formerly strong individual linger for years.

So now you want to kill old people and babies? Hunting season on anyone under 9 months and over 70 right?

 

[CanuckMA]

So now you want to kill old people and babies? Hunting season on anyone under 9 months and over 70 right?

There are times where euthanasia is the better option. My mother is not living, she's merely existing. My sisters and I signed the stop treatment order for my father. It was not an easy decision, but at some point we have to realize that just because we can keep somebody alive does not mean we should.

 

[Tez3]

It's a fallacy that prosperity means you have a good life and one that Americans have been peddling for years to the rest of us. Having it all doesn't make for happiness. There are still many very unhappy people who have all the trappings of a prosperous life. Again it's very simplistic to say you have money, food and a television therefore you must be happy. There are still awful things going on in peoples lives even if they have large bank balances.

Mental and physical illnesses can wreak havoc in families, bullying, addictions, lack of self esteem, controlling personalities, domestic abuse, child abuse, incest, paedophilia, lack of confidence, autistic conditions, disabilities, divorces and step parents etc etc can all be reasons why someone's life may be miserable despite having the trappings of wealth or even just moderate comfort.

 

[ballen0351]

It's a fallacy that prosperity means you have a good life and one that Americans have been peddling for years to the rest of us. Having it all doesn't make for happiness. There are still many very unhappy people who have all the trappings of a prosperous life. Again it's very simplistic to say you have money, food and a television therefore you must be happy. There are still awful things going on in peoples lives even if they have large bank balances.

Mental and physical illnesses can wreak havoc in families, bullying, addictions, lack of self esteem, controlling personalities, domestic abuse, child abuse, incest, paedophilia, lack of confidence, autistic conditions, disabilities, divorces and step parents etc etc can all be reasons why someone's life may be miserable despite having the trappings of wealth or even just moderate comfort.

And being poor does not make you have a bad life either.

Mental and physical illnesses can wreak havoc in families, bullying, addictions, lack of self esteem, controlling personalities, domestic abuse, child abuse, incest, paedophilia, lack of confidence, autistic conditions, disabilities, divorces and step parents etc etc All these things to an extent are temporary and can change over a lifetime. To say I need to kill a abay because my boyfriend beats me and Im poor is not to say 6 months from now youll meet a good man that wont beat you and will support you to get an education and make something of yourself. You never know what tomorrow brings why not give the baby the benefit of the doubt?

 

[ballen0351]

There are times where euthanasia is the better option. My mother is not living, she's merely existing. My sisters and I signed the stop treatment order for my father. It was not an easy decision, but at some point we have to realize that just because we can keep somebody alive does not mean we should.

But should it be your decision? Just because your tired of going to vist dear old mommy in the home. Im not against someone killing themselves its their life go for it. Im not against stop treatment orders but to go to the step of euthanasia without the consent of the person being killed is wrong.

 

[Tez3]

And being poor does not make you have a bad life either.

Mental and physical illnesses can wreak havoc in families, bullying, addictions, lack of self esteem, controlling personalities, domestic abuse, child abuse, incest, paedophilia, lack of confidence, autistic conditions, disabilities, divorces and step parents etc etc All these things to an extent are temporary and can change over a lifetime. To say I need to kill a abay because my boyfriend beats me and Im poor is not to say 6 minths from now youll meet a good man that wont beat you and will support you to get an education and make something of yourself. You never know what tomorrow brings why not give the baby the benefit of the doubt?

I have never advocated having abortions because you are poor, you picked that subject. I'm amazed however that you think so many of these situations are merely temporary and don't affect people in the long run. You have an extreme case of false optomism.