cutting punch

[Gerry Seymour]

Why do you think the elbow has to pop up?

Why do you think your arm doesn't hinge?

Is biu-sau a punch in your Aikido system?

I haven't referenced my system, now have I?

 

[LFJ]

Nobody said anything about "popping". Humans punch by extending the arm, which (unless they wing the arm out) causes the elbow to rise. It's the mechanics of the arm, and not a secret principle, flaw, or decision.

Fair to say you have not learned every way to punch. I would suggest you revisit SNT, but you don't even train Wing Chun...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Fair to say you have not learned every way to punch. I would suggest you revisit SNT, but you don't even train Wing Chun...

Fair to say you are describing a physical impossibility. I would suggest you revisit anatomy and kinesiology, but you don't seem to care for them.

 

[LFJ]

Why do you think your arm doesn't hinge?

Why do you think I think that?

I haven't referenced my system, now have I?

So, you're speaking on behalf of particular branches of a MA you don't even train.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why do you think I think that?

Because you've claimed your elbow stays on the same horizontal plane (never rising) during a punch.

So, you're speaking on behalf of particular branches of a MA you don't even train.

Nope, just making it clear you're trying to make claims about others' that you don't train in. It's fair for you to make a statement about what biu sau is and is not within the system you train. Making statements beyond that is claiming to be an expert on others' systems. Hence the correction. I'd guess you're correct that biu sau is not used in punching concepts within your training, and I'd make no value judgment on whether that's a good or bad thing - it's just a thing. Others (even within the same lineage) may actually use biu sau as part of the conceptual teaching of punches, and if it works and creates useful results, then good on them.

 

[guy b]

Nobody said anything about "popping". Humans punch by extending the arm, which (unless they wing the arm out) causes the elbow to rise. It's the mechanics of the arm, and not a secret principle, flaw, or decision.

In VT the elbow does not rise

 

[LFJ]

Because you've claimed your elbow stays on the same horizontal plane (never rising) during a punch.

And?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In VT the elbow does not rise

Simply not mechanically possible with an arm. Show me a single video of an actual punch where the elbow stays on the same horizontal plane, without it being winged out to the side, without it being a false punch (no arm movement involved at all), and without it being a downward punch.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And?

And the arm doesn't work that way. If your arm is bent with the elbow down, and you extend it anywhere except straight down, the elbow will move upward from the horizontal plane it started on.

 

[guy b]

Simply not mechanically possible with an arm. Show me a single video of an actual punch where the elbow stays on the same horizontal plane, without it being winged out to the side, without it being a false punch (no arm movement involved at all), and without it being a downward punch.

Suggest you try VT

 

[LFJ]

And the arm doesn't work that way. If your arm is bent with the elbow down, and you extend it anywhere except straight down, the elbow will move upward from the horizontal plane it started on.

If I punch forward, the elbow moves forward and stays down.

 

[guy b]

I'd guess you're correct that biu sau is not used in punching concepts within your training, and I'd make no value judgment on whether that's a good or bad thing - it's just a thing. Others (even within the same lineage) may actually use biu sau as part of the conceptual teaching of punches, and if it works and creates useful results, then good on them.

Others within the same system may not use biu sau to teach a punching idea because to do so would be nonsensical. I guess they could go insane and do it, or fail to understand the system and do it, but that's about all. Certainly no value in it.

 

[guy b]

If I punch forward, the elbow moves forward and stays down.

Yes, elbow does not rise

 

[LFJ]

Others within the same system may not use biu sau to teach a punching idea because to do so would be nonsensical. I guess they could go insane and do it, or fail to understand the system and do it, but that's about all. Certainly no value in it.

Nobody Important said his punch has a "vertical fist to align radius and ulna" and then that biu-sau would be the exact same thing... but biu-sau is palm down, which would be a horizontal fist. So, he seems a bit confused.

 

[guy b]

Nobody Important said his punch has a "vertical fist to align radius and ulna" and then that biu-sau would be the exact same thing... but biu-sau is palm down, which would be a horizontal fist. So, he seems a bit confused.

More than a little confused

 

[wtxs]

Right, so, when an opponent's arm is above yours, and you want to punch them in the face, does your elbow not rise to wedge them out?

Since we are so clueless of how to handle what had you outlined, please school us dummies of the correct solution.

 

[wtxs]

The reason would be so that you aren't able to just claim them as your own, as you have done many times before. This is why it is useful to talk things through to get a clear idea of where others stand before revealing details.

Being evasive and dishonest doesn't help speed this process.

Why is it important to know where others stands before you revealing details, you made it clear your come to this forum to share ideas. So why are you holding out ... possible that you knows nothing more then the rest of us? There is no shame to admitting that we don't have all the answers.

What you had done so far IS being evasive and dishonest which does not help the process.

 

[dudewingchun]

Pretty sure Guy B and LFJ dont actually care about WC and just have fun causing drama on this forum lol

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Suggest you try VT

Suggest you try a human body. Unless you care to show an actual example that refutes my claim?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If I punch forward, the elbow moves forward and stays down.

Try this: tie a string to your arm so that it JUST touches the ground when your punch is chambered. Now, extend your punch toward a target at shoulder height. The string will NOT be touching the ground. The elbow does rise. Every time. Every person. Every punch.