cutting punch

[guy b]

Oh I wasn't realizing that was their argument. So they are actually saying that WSLPB-VT violates basic biomechanical realities such as the elbow moving both vertically and horizontally if you extend your arm in front of you?

Please, stop

 

[Nobody Important]

I think understand what you guys are trying to say:

The elbow moves in an arc around the shoulder, regardless of what the forearm is doing. There's only one bone connecting the two, no joints.
Therefore as the elbow moves forward away from the body it will invariable rise with respect to the shoulder.

However...
If I did want my elbow to travel forward along horizontal plane in space, I could achieve this by shrugging my shoulder downward or sinking at the knees.

For myself, I prefer to use the idea of a sunken elbow as a visualization method to get the desired tracking and force than a literal spacial exactitude.

The elbow would still move, like water, it will always seek level with the shoulder when extended. Shrugging, shrinking etc. doesn't matter it has to rise. It is a hinge joint, it can only move in one direction to open.

 

[Nobody Important]

Okay, you don't do wing chun. I get it. But good trolling, I believed it for a while

If I am incorrect, post something to refute my claim.

 

[guy b]

If I am incorrect, post something to refute my claim.

It's too much, please stop. You got me, I believed you did the obscure Mainland wing chun. But you are into bat$*** crazy territory now, and the game is up

 

[Nobody Important]

It's too much, please stop. You got me, I believed you did the obscure Mainland wing chun. But you are into bat$*** crazy territory now, and the game is up

Can't do it? If you want to prove me wrong post a video of a straight punch where the elbow remains.

 

[Juany118]

It's too much, please stop. You got me, I believed you did the obscure Mainland wing chun. But you are into bat$*** crazy territory now, and the game is up

So let me get this straight. You honestly believe if you punch that as your arms moves forward from a ready position that the elbow does not rise in relation to its physical distance from the ground? I just want to be 100% sure here.

 

[Steve]

So let me get this straight. You honestly believe if you punch that as your arms moves forward from a ready position that the elbow does not rise in relation to its physical distance from the ground? I just want to be 100% sure here.

wouldnt the shoulder have to move forward In order to move the whole arm forward?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

For what it's worth, I just extended my arm and my elbow didn't come up. My wrist went down instead. I don't know jack about punching in WC/VT/VC/WT but your elbow will only rise if your wrist stays on a level plane.

If it's a punch, the elbow will always move toward the line between the shoulder and target. If you punch downward, the elbow need not rise, simply because the line is angled so far down. I've put that to those making the claim, who appear to be making the claim about a level punch, or even one to the head.

 

[Nobody Important]

This is a series of images of WSL taken from a video of him performing SNT.

The top green line shows chin level and the bottom green line shows elbow level. The red line demonstrates the trajectory of the elbow rise when performing the straight punch. It clearly illustrates the elbow moving up.

This second series of images is of PB doing chi sau with someone at a seminar.

The blue line shows his opponents chin level. The top green line shows PBs chin level and the bottom green line shows his elbow level. The red line demonstrates the trajectory of his straight punch, clearly showing the rise of the elbow from starting point to target. The pink dot is the stub of his left hand. This series also shows PB performing an outside gate punch.

According to Guy B. and LFJ the video of WSL performing SNT contains intentional errors, they say that the elbow does not rise. They also say they do not have the gate/inclusion/exclusion/cutting punch. This is in direct conflict with PB performing the same punch during chi sau. Either PB is intentionally doing it wrong, or he never learned to straight punch without raising the elbow.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Oh I wasn't realizing that was their argument. So they are actually saying that WSLPB-VT violates basic biomechanical realities such as the elbow moving both vertically and horizontally if you extend your arm in front of you?

Yes.

 

[Steve]

If it's a punch, the elbow will always move toward the line between the shoulder and target. If you punch downward, the elbow need not rise, simply because the line is angled so far down. I've put that to those making the claim, who appear to be making the claim about a level punch, or even one to the head.

I didn't see anything about a level punch. People are moving the goalposts on me. And now we're talking about the entire arm moving forward,,,

 

[Nobody Important]

I didn't see anything about a level punch. People are moving the goalposts on me. And now we're talking about the entire arm moving forward,,,

Do you not punch moving your arm forward?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Can't do it? If you want to prove me wrong post a video of a straight punch where the elbow remains.

Two people have asked for a video. They haven't provided one. I actually think they are trolling on this one. They're too obvious.

 

[Nobody Important]

wouldnt the shoulder have to move forward In order to move the whole arm forward?

Look at the pictures of PB, notice the shoulder movement?

 

[Nobody Important]

Two people have asked for a video. They haven't provided one. I actually think they are trolling on this one. They're too obvious.

Agree

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I didn't see anything about a level punch. People are moving the goalposts on me. And now we're talking about the entire arm moving forward,,,

We also didn't rule out a completely detached arm, Steve.

 

[KPM]

If I punch forward, the elbow moves forward and stays down.

It stays down? The distance between your elbow and the floor does not change at all during the punch? Please explain that in more detail.

 

[drop bear]

Simply not mechanically possible with an arm. Show me a single video of an actual punch where the elbow stays on the same horizontal plane, without it being winged out to the side, without it being a false punch (no arm movement involved at all), and without it being a downward punch.

Ok the punch moves downward with the elbow locked in place. think hammer fist. Then you walk forward to get the punch on target.

It is retarded. But doable.

 

[Nobody Important]

Here's a simple experiment.

Take a piece of string and tie a knot in the center of it (the knot represents your elbow)

Tape one end to the wall (this represents your shoulder)

Holding the free end near the wall, pull the free end to straighten the string (the free end represents your hand)

Do this from any angle you like, notice how the knot will always follow the end being pulled? Your elbow functions in a similar manner.

 

[KPM]

No, that's not it. It the argument that it is physically impossible for the elbow not to come up when the arm is extended. It is not humanly possible to extend the arm & have the elbow remain. They insinuate it is. They are wrong, end of discussion.

Oh no. I am sure we will see a disclaimer soon that this isn't at all what they were saying and that we have all misunderstood. Very typical. They will let a discussion go on back and forth and down the rabbit hole and then finally say..."well, what I meant was XXXXX."