cutting punch

[LFJ]

My punch is straight forward as I described, no different than what presented in the images I posted.

There it is!

This video is your weak attempt to suggest I punch like this fellow with a weird popping elbow, I never said I did and am confirming I do not.

This confirms you do:

the wrist will be at the highest point and shoulder at the lowest on the line of attack

 

[LFJ]

I think the problem is this the context of a WC punch a bunch of us already understand.

I just read several pages of you guys to figure out how to punch keeping elbow low.

 

[Juany118]

LOL, and the only way possible. Technically the elbow will still rise very slightly with a fully extended hammer fist.

I can testify to this. This isn't a traditional Wing Chun strike but at work its a bread and brother punch for me. An empty hand hammer punch to the collar bone will buckle someone, with a tactical pen or my tactical flashlight just above the collar bone to that pressure point...Oi!!!

If you are going for maximum leverage, the elbow will rise slightly so you can get maximum force.

 

[Nobody Important]

If you are landing a punch at full extension of the arm, you are at the wrong range.



This is popping the elbow up over shoulder. VT elbow stays low.

You said your inside and outside gate punches don't change.

If you raise your elbow over your shoulder above the opponent's arm on the outside you won't wedge anything.
If you keep your elbow low under the opponent's arm on the inside, you won't wedge anything.

To work around this, you pivot to dodge and sink or raise your elbow to affect the incoming punch.

= Reactive arm-chasing.

Wow! You are seriously thick headed. Three levels, High, Medium, Low. I don't know about you but I don't punch on one plane. Again, it makes no sense to purposefully try and accomplish Gate Punching it should occur naturally during the course of punching, no arm chasing. If it happens it happens, if not nothing lost. You asked specifically how it would be performed when the opponent is punching you in the head like in the videos you presented. Hypothetically, it would occur as I have described numerous times, but you would not seek to purposefully do it. But to give you another example of how inside/outside gate are the done the same, require they are both performed at the same level:

Imagine a right punch being thrown at your chest, using your left hand, while pivoting left, you punch over his arm, your forearm knocks it offline as you hit his head. Now if it is the same punch being thrown with his left hand, you pivot right while punching with your right hand under his arm, your forearm knocks it offline as you strike his head. This would all be in middle level. If it were at high level (like in your videos), your arm has to extend more, causing the wrist and elbow to be higher than shoulder, otherwise you'll get hit. There is no rise or sink, you push the punch forward, the angle of the forearm is the wedge. Just as shown in the pictures of PB doing the outer gate punch.

Yes at times I do extend my arm fully, the full potential of power penetration is realized at fullest extension of the arm. It doesn't mean I'm punching from too far away, it means I'm punching through. The same concept is found in Long Fist. I don't care if this is proper for WSLVT or not, I don't do WSLVT.

 

[Nobody Important]

There it is!



This confirms you do:

Stop already, your desperation is bordering on ridiculous.

 

[drop bear]

Silly question but if you are moving off line to counter punch why would you want your punch to jam up their punch?

You are out of the way. Any jamming is only slowing your attack down.

 

[Juany118]

I just read several pages of you guys to figure out how to punch keeping elbow low.

And you are completely dodging points and using the martial arts equivalent of psychobabble to dodge a point. If your elbow is pointed down it is quite literally physically impossible to extend your arm without the elbow rising in relation to the surface you are standing on. If you are reaching/punching at something higher than shoulder height it is impossible, if your elbow is pointing down, for the wrist to not be higher than both the elbow and shoulder.

These are actual hard written laws NOT of any particular martial arts but if the biomechanics of the human body, period.

I am now left wondering if you are just so stubborn that you are ignoring the laws under which the human body move or if you are simply a straight up troll getting your jollies off of watching people slowly biurely getting frustrated at feigned ignorance.

 

[LFJ]

Imagine a right punch being thrown at your chest, using your left hand, while pivoting left, you punch over his arm, your forearm knocks it offline as you hit his head.

Pivot to dodge. Wrist-led punch to attack the arm and head. = Reactive arm-chasing.

Now if it is the same punch being thrown with his left hand, you pivot right while punching with your right hand under his arm, your forearm knocks it offline as you strike his head.

Same as above, but won't work without raising your elbow.

This would all be in middle level. If it were at high level (like in your videos), your arm has to extend more, causing the wrist and elbow to be higher than shoulder, otherwise you'll get hit.

So, level is referring to the incoming punch, and you modify your punch to deal with it. Same as above. Reactive arm-chasing.

There is no rise or sink, you push the punch forward, the angle of the forearm is the wedge.

You just said your elbow will rise to higher than shoulder, otherwise you'll get hit. There's no need to wedge if you have dodged.

Just as shown in the pictures of PB doing the outer gate punch.

PB is not doing what you describe.

 

[LFJ]

it is impossible, if your elbow is pointing down, for the wrist to not be higher than both the elbow and shoulder.

And?

VT elbow stays low.

Nobody Important has described raising the elbow above shoulder level.

 

[Juany118]

Silly question but if you are moving off line to counter punch why would you want your punch to jam up their punch?

You are out of the way. Any jamming is only slowing your attack down.

The idea is this... The intent isn't to jam a punch, the idea is that if you punch using a particular method you either strike the target causing damage OR if they are also punching your punch naturally jams the incoming attack.

Thing is for the arm to be able to do that one or the other kinda thing it require a particular orientation or you risk a collapse of the structure on the "jam" side.

 

[Nobody Important]

Philipp Bayer punching at high level. His elbow is clearly higher than shoulder, because he is striking someone taller. Also you can notice that his elbow is not down, but to the side.

 

[LFJ]

Faak-sau.

 

[Nobody Important]

Silly question but if you are moving off line to counter punch why would you want your punch to jam up their punch?

You are out of the way. Any jamming is only slowing your attack down.

Honestly you wouldn't. LFJ presented a situation where inside gate punching could be visualized. I've stated to him several times that you don't actively pursue such a thing. In attempts to explain it to him he has done everything he can think of to discredit something that wouldn't be done in the scenario presented anyways.

 

[Nobody Important]

Faak-sau.

His right hand is irrelevant. Look at his left punch. Are you going to deny that the elbow is higher than his shoulder, or that his elbow isn't down? Try to spin buddy, its right there for you to see.

 

[LFJ]

His right hand is irrelevant. Look at his left punch. Are you going to deny that the elbow is higher than his shoulder, or that his elbow isn't down? Try to spin buddy, its right there for you to see.

It's faak-sau! Not a punch!

You think what his right hand is doing is faak-sau?

I think guy b is right. There's no way you are a real Wing Chun practitioner.

 

[LFJ]

LFJ presented a situation where inside gate punching could be visualized...
...he has done everything he can think of to discredit something that wouldn't be done in the scenario presented anyways.

That was you who said this:

Imagine a right punch being thrown at your chest,

 

[Nobody Important]

H

It's faak-sau! Not a punch!

You think what his right hand is doing is faak-sau?

His left hand is throwing a straight punch not a faak sau. It is moving to the inside. Argue it all you want. The elbow is higher than the shoulder. And this will be my last remark on the subject because I've been turned in and will likely be banned. Continue to propagate the delusion.

 

[LFJ]

Stop already, your desperation is bordering on ridiculous.

Says this guy =>

 

[LFJ]

H

His left hand is throwing a straight punch not a faak sau. It is moving to the inside. Argue it all you want. The elbow is higher than the shoulder. And this will be my last remark on the subject because I've been turned in and will likely be banned. Continue to propagate the delusion.

You are not a Wing Chun practitioner. Quit trolling.

 

[geezer]

H

His left hand is throwing a straight punch not a faak sau. It is moving to the inside. Argue it all you want. The elbow is higher than the shoulder. And this will be my last remark on the subject because I've been turned in and will likely be banned. Continue to propagate the delusion.

Hmm... it sure looks like a right lap-sau and left hand fak-sau to me. BTW hasn't this become a really stupid thread? I think a lot of WC/WT/VT people must just delight in arguing. I mean, all this just regarding elbow position in punching? Sheesh.

FYI: In our lineage we keep the elbow low, and at proper hitting range (with the arm bent) the elbow tends to stay lower than the fist. Even when punching upward, the bent elbow points downward. Now when air-punching in practice, we let our punches extend and the arm straighten out. Then, of course the elbow rises, and many people from other lineages see this and think that we advocate "popping the elbow up". We don't. But others can think whatever they want. I will explain what we do and that's the end of it. Only an idiot knowingly argues with an idiot. I really have nothing more to add to this thread.