I wouldn't count that a "punch". I did think that movement through, which is why I used the wording I did. I agree, it's retarded.
cutting punch
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Nobody Important
2nd Black Belt
LOL, and the only way possible. Technically the elbow will still rise very slightly with a fully extended hammer fist.
Nobody Important
2nd Black Belt
Nobody Important.....you have put far too much effort into proving something that they very likely don't disgree with. This is their standard M.O. This is how they frustrate everyone and create long and convoluted threads. In the end they will just refuse to explain or elaborate, or they will end up saying we have misunderstood them all this time (though they made no effort during the discussion to clarify.)
Nobody Important
2nd Black Belt
Nobody Important
2nd Black Belt
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That's not at all what the quote says.
There are others who received the full system from WSL and share the same understanding as PB. You think they all learned a handicapped version of VT?
Nothing has been changed to the system. He attaches the pole and knife directly to his arm, though. That's a "modification", I suppose. I wouldn't do that.
Welcome back, Hendrik!
It's amazing you spent so much time diddling with images and still don't notice PB's elbow position at the end of his punch. Has it popped up while lifting the arm like your punch at 1:10 here below? Or has it stayed down?
Your punch pops the elbow up over shoulder height as you pivot and lift your arm from underneath the opponent's punch to wedge them out. PB's punch keeps the elbow low and just punches directly forward.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Part of it.
The elbow stays low below shoulder and fist and moves forward. At no point does it pop up like NI's punch.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Like most beginners, you attacked me wrong.
This is allowing the elbow to rise, popping up to higher than shoulder level.
VT elbow stays down.
That's a different statement than has been made before.
As for the "popping" in that video, it looks like at least part of that is a visual illusion. The man's shirt sleeve is popping upward in response to the movement of his arm. It can be seen to settle to his slightly bent elbow at the end of most movements.
As for the elbow staying below the shoulder, that's a function of the distance of a punch and the direction. A short punch can nearly always keep the elbow below the shoulder. A punch at shoulder level or lower can nearly always keep the elbow below the shoulder. A punch to a higher target (say the face of a much taller man's) at a distance approaching arm's-length can yield an elbow even with or even above the shoulder without changing the structure of the punch.
Nobody Important
2nd Black Belt
Hey, Thanks Buttercup! If you would quit bad mouthing me when I leave a conversation I wouldn't have to return to it.
You're deflecting, His elbow rose up on the way to its target, just as I said it would, there was no discussion on my part about elbow popping, that's all you.
You can clearly see that the elbow rose off a perpendicular line towards the target just as you said it didn't. The discussion isn't about where the elbow ends. It's about it rising towards the target.
No it doesn't, it follows the line of attack. If punching high the wrist will be at the highest point and shoulder at the lowest on the line of attack on an inside gate punch. The more the arm is extended the more the elbow rises.
My punch is straight forward as I described, no different than what presented in the images I posted. This video is your weak attempt to suggest I punch like this fellow with a weird popping elbow, I never said I did and am confirming I do not.
Juany118
Senior Master
I am talking about movement in space. As a ball and socket joint the shoulder really just rotates by however many degrees necessary to extend the arm. The elbow then, as it straightens (while in the down position) rises in relation to the ground as it moves forward. Now in terms of the philosophy or instruction you can of course explain the elbow moving forward and/or the shoulder as well but that isn't what I thought was being discussed.
In order to allow people to create an actual film in their mind the actual physical path of a particular punch was described, as I understand it.
Nobody Important
2nd Black Belt
He doesn't understand that I'm guessing.
If you are landing a punch at full extension of the arm, you are at the wrong range.
This is popping the elbow up over shoulder. VT elbow stays low.
You said your inside and outside gate punches don't change.
If you raise your elbow over your shoulder above the opponent's arm on the outside you won't wedge anything.
If you keep your elbow low under the opponent's arm on the inside, you won't wedge anything.
To work around this, you pivot to dodge and sink or raise your elbow to affect the incoming punch.
= Reactive arm-chasing.
Juany118
Senior Master
I didn't see anything about a level punch. People are moving the goalposts on me. And now we're talking about the entire arm moving forward,,,
I think the problem is this the context of a WC punch a bunch of us already understand.
A Stereotypical WC punch is a straight punch that has the elbow pointed down. It can be to any target the arm can reach but it has the elbow down and if fully extended you should be able to draw a straight line between the fist and the sternum (hence the saying "punch from the heart".)
Here is a video that illustrates it
Now some Lineages will also incorporate a "Buffalo punch" and the like but the video above is the bread an butter punch. The reason the idea of level punching has come about is because a couple people are trying in vain to defend a position that violates not any WC rule but basic biomechanical rules.
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