Contradictions In The Martial Arts

[Hot Lunch]

So are you saying Mr. Miyagi could've given a better answer?

Yes. "The" answer.

Danny: "What kind of belt do you have?"

Mr. Miyagi: "Black/coral/red. x-th dan in Goju-ryu."

 

[PhotonGuy]

Yes. And I'd find it hilarious if they made that comment.

Well in post #135 you said if you asked how much they cost so it makes sense he would tell you how much. I doubt a scoutmaster would sell it to you if you haven't earned it though. You can buy eagle badges at Boy Scout supply stores but they would have to see credentials to see that you fulfilled the requirements to earn it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I don't think that's analogous in tone.

Sure it is, in both cases somebody (a sensei or a scoutmaster) is suggesting that I cheat.

 

[Flying Crane]

Well in post #135 you said if you asked how much they cost so it makes sense he would tell you how much. I doubt a scoutmaster would sell it to you if you haven't earned it though. You can buy eagle badges at Boy Scout supply stores but they would have to see credentials to see that you fulfilled the requirements to earn it.

Do Boy Scout supply stores exist?

 

[PhotonGuy]

Yes. "The" answer.

Danny: "What kind of belt do you have?"

Mr. Miyagi: "Black/coral/red. x-th dan in Goju-ryu."

Well there is no indication that Miyagi had such a belt. Miyagi did not believe in belts of rank and so he didn't use them, the one exception being if you need a belt to be in a tournament (as Daniel did when the entered the All Valley Under 18.) As such Miyagi probably didn't have any belts of rank as his own. He had learned Karate from his father so his father probably didn't believe in belts of rank either and as such Miyagi would not have any such belts.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Do Boy Scout supply stores exist?

Yes, that's where you can get Boy Scout uniforms, books, supplies, and all sorts of camping gear and other stuff you use in Boy Scouts. They also sell badges although you have to show them credentials that say you've fulfilled the requirements for the badges before they sell them to you.

 

[Hot Lunch]

It can be a motivator, but it isn't for quite a few. How do I know? There are a lot of systems that don't use them, yet manage to get plenty of students (boxing, most MMA gyms, big swaths of CMA).

Add belts, and watch things change real quick.

Let's go back to the military. In the Navy, the lowest six enlisted paygrades wear different uniforms (the sailor suit) from the highest three and officers (white mandarin collar and blue double breasted suits). The Navy is the only branch of the military to have this. In every other branch of the military, everyone wears the same uniforms (with minor distinctions between grades, but essentially still the same).

For the most part, the goal of career enlisted personnel is to reach the highest paygrade (E9). Outside of becoming an NCO at E4/E5 (depending on the branch), each and every promotion is merely one step on the way to E9 and nothing more.

But in the Navy? Nope. Making E7 (Chief Petty Officer) is a HUGE deal. Why? Because you get to wear the cooler and more dignified looking uniforms. Whereas, in the other branches, promotion to E7 is just another stripe.

I don't even think it's reasonable to say it's a motivator for all. I've known people who never bothered to test for BB, because the test (time, commitment, and sometimes money) wasn't worth the payoff, though they could readilyt have passed it (others around them knew they were more skilled and knowledgeable than fresh BB's).

So this wasn't a problem for them with promotions up the current ranks they held at the time?

 

[Hot Lunch]

Well there is no indication that Miyagi had such a belt. Miyagi did not believe in belts of rank and so he didn't use them, the one exception being if you need a belt to be in a tournament (as Daniel did when the entered the All Valley Under 18.) As such Miyagi probably didn't have any belts of rank as his own. He had learned Karate from his father so his father probably didn't believe in belts of rank either and as such Miyagi would not have any such belts.

Sato wearing a red belt in the sequel is an indicator.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes, that's where you can get Boy Scout uniforms, books, supplies, and all sorts of camping gear and other stuff you use in Boy Scouts. They also sell badges although you have to show them credentials that say you've fulfilled the requirements for the badges before they sell them to you.

Are these stores found in any major city, like an army/navy surplus store? Or are they set up by Scout headquarters? You can just walk into them? For camping gear I would more likely head to the REI.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Well in post #135 you said if you asked how much they cost so it makes sense he would tell you how much. I doubt a scoutmaster would sell it to you if you haven't earned it though. You can buy eagle badges at Boy Scout supply stores but they would have to see credentials to see that you fulfilled the requirements to earn it.

That was me miswriting your own question. It should've been, if I asked how long it took to get the badge/what I have to do to get the badge, and that was his response.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Sure it is, in both cases somebody (a sensei or a scoutmaster) is suggesting that I cheat.

No one is suggesting you cheat. You missed the point that's been explained like 5 times to you.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Are these stores found in any major city, like an army/navy surplus store? Or are they set up by Scout headquarters? You can just walk into them? For camping gear I would more likely head to the REI.

There is such a store not far from where I live and it's right off a highway, not in a major city or anything. Anybody can walk into it and make purchases (although you will need credentials to purchase badges) and I would imagine major cities would have them too. The camping gear you would get at such a store is the official gear that Boy Scouts use but it works like most other camping gear. Never heard of REI, for camping gear I usually go to Cabela's.

 

[PhotonGuy]

That was me miswriting your own question. It should've been, if I asked how long it took to get the badge/what I have to do to get the badge, and that was his response.

Well I wouldn't find it hilarious if a scoutmaster, or a sensei, suggest I cheat.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Are these stores found in any major city, like an army/navy surplus store? Or are they set up by Scout headquarters? You can just walk into them? For camping gear I would more likely head to the REI.

There was one maybe 40 minutes from my house growing up. It had normal camping gear, but also boy scout specific stuff, like uniforms, pants, bsa logo stuff, the bsa handbook, and merit badge books. I think it's also where i went to submit paperwork a couple times, and we had some meetings there for a council-based troop for the national jamboree.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Well I wouldn't find it hilarious if a scoutmaster, or a sensei, suggest I cheat.

Goodbye, and good luck.

 

[PhotonGuy]

No one is suggesting you cheat. You missed the point that's been explained like 5 times to you.

Maybe not me but the potential student who Urel offered to sell a black belt to, by doing so Urel was suggesting that he cheat, even if he was doing it in a jokingly matter.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Sato wearing a red belt in the sequel is an indicator.

Even so there was no indication that Miyagi had any belts of rank. Even if he did at one time he might've thrown it away as he did not believe in belts of rank.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Even so there was no indication that Miyagi had any belts of rank. Even if he did at one time he might've thrown it away as he did not believe in belts of rank.

That's the indication right there. If Sato and Miyagi were both trained in Miyago-do, then Miyago-do clearly has rank if Sato is wearing a red belt.

Even if I granted you the second statement (though throwing away the belt doesn't erase his credentials), how is this helping your argument against what Unel did?

 

[PhotonGuy]

My apologies it was Taija Rebel not Monkey Turned Wolf who made the post about Unel telling a student that belts went for 10 pounds. So it's Taija Rebel not you or anybody else on this forum who I should be talking to about the point of his post.

​

 

[PhotonGuy]

That's the indication right there. If Sato and Miyagi were both trained in Miyago-do, then Miyago-do clearly has rank if Sato is wearing a red belt.

Mr. Miyagi himself said that in Okinawa a belt means that you don't need a rope to hold up your pants so that is an indication that he never had any belts of rank himself. Sato wearing a red belt might've been an inconsistency.

Even if I granted you the second statement (though throwing away the belt doesn't erase his credentials), how is this helping your argument against what Unel did?

Daniel asked what belt Mr. Migagi had at the time, not about any belts he had in the past so in the scenario where Miyagi had a belt and threw it away that would apply. Much like in a scene which did not make the final cut where Bobby discards his belt at Kreese's feet and walks away after being disqualified for kicking Daniel in the knee.

As for my argument against what Unel did, the student asked how long it took to get a black belt and Unel, albeit jokingly, offered to sell him one on the spot. As you said earlier Unel could've been doing that just to make the student look dumb. It was rather obvious the student was asking how long on the average it took to earn a black belt not how much it cost to buy one. Trying to make a student or prospective student look dumb is poor taste if you ask me.