Contradictions In The Martial Arts

[Gerry Seymour]

If you want to fool yourself and others by wearing a B.B. with only a year or so of training that's your decision, but for your pride and safety make sure you don't get called out to use it because more than likely you will not hold up to a real B.B.

This comment implies there's a specific meaning for BB. There isn't. There are definitely systems out there where a reasonably dedicated student (not someone exceptional) could have their BB rank within a year or so - it's just not that high a rank in those systems.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well I did do a web search on Unel and I've discovered that he is quite a controversial figure. But even if he did was in good humor, jokes aren't funny if they're offensive.

Doesn't sound like anyone present at the time was offended. Why be offended on their behalf?

 

[Xue Sheng]

As I said, you'll have to do better.

You're not going to like this, but you are again missing the point, and you did ask for it, repeatedly..

Why waste my time explaining. You are getting as good as you are going to get from me, and as far as I am concerned it is what you deserve. Ask something worth answering and or respond in interesting snd respectful ways and you would get a better answer.

You rebrand and repeat threads and questions over and over again, you miss obvious points and ask to be spoon fed what it actually means. And it is very likely you will ask the same thing all over again or miss the point completely and again ask why or repeat the question

case in point, expecting me to explain a post that show the overall frustration many of your posts tend to cause myself and I assume others.

And before yo go the, "well don't read them" root, I tend to avoid your posts, but every now and then, depending on who I see posted last, I look at it because they are a poster whose posts I like to read.

You will get no further explanation from me on this point. I should be pretty obvious why you get the responses from me that you do at this point

Have a nice day

 

[Dirty Dog]

As I said, you'll have to do better.

I know this will be difficult for you to grasp, but if everyone gets it except you, maybe the problem is you...

 

[JowGaWolf]

Seriously.... wow

You will learn not to battle photon !! bwaahaha.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Well I did do a web search on Unel and I've discovered that he is quite a controversial figure. But even if he did was in good humor, jokes aren't funny if they're offensive.

As Gerry pointed it out, from what we've been told no one was offended. Beyond that
A: It was likely more of a lesson in the teacher's philosophy, in a light-hearted manner, then just meant to be comedy.
B: I don't even see how it would be offensive. I can't think of a single group of people that would be offended by it.

 

[J.D. Natan]

I sometimes notice that there are big contradictions in the martial arts. For instance, and I've discussed this before, how they will say that being a first degree black belt doesn't mean you're a master or even an expert it just means you're a serious beginner, but then they make it so hard to get that you practically have to be a master to get it. Sounds very contradictory to me.

You are not alone. Our system has no Kyu Ranks. White Belt until your instructors feel that you understand and can apply the Black Belt Program teachings, then there is a ceremony where you receive your Shodan. Takes about 18 months if you really work hard on building the skills. You are doing full contact Bogu Kumite from the beginning and doing it every class. The advanced students are not going to take advantage of you because they went through the same procedures. And, they know if they do, they will be learning the error of their ways with someone who can take them apart in the next few minutes.
We use Master Nakamura's rank system in the Black Belts.
Of course we are Ryukyu Kenpo.

 

[Yamabushii]

I sometimes notice that there are big contradictions in the martial arts. For instance, and I've discussed this before, how they will say that being a first degree black belt doesn't mean you're a master or even an expert it just means you're a serious beginner, but then they make it so hard to get that you practically have to be a master to get it. Sounds very contradictory to me.

Different arts and schools have different interpretations of what a student's skill level should be at a given belt level. For most martial arts, a first degree black belt is typically mastery of the basics. Climbing beyond that is typically where people generally tend to develop more advanced skills. However, with arts such as BJJ, a 1st degree black belt is considered more than just mastery of the basics.

At the end of the day, there are a lot of factors that should be taken into account with belt levels such as a school's requirements to pass a test. Are they belt factories? Do they require demonstration in open sparring? Is testing scaled based on individual people (disability, age, gender, etc.)? A higher belt doesn't necessarily mean you're more skilled, which is why a lot of others posting in this thread are saying ranks are meaningless. Unfortunately, people generally only begin to understand this once they're much more experienced martial artists no matter what others may tell them.

 

[PhotonGuy]

You're not going to like this, but you are again missing the point, and you did ask for it, repeatedly..

Why waste my time explaining. You are getting as good as you are going to get from me, and as far as I am concerned it is what you deserve. Ask something worth answering and or respond in interesting snd respectful ways and you would get a better answer.

You rebrand and repeat threads and questions over and over again, you miss obvious points and ask to be spoon fed what it actually means. And it is very likely you will ask the same thing all over again or miss the point completely and again ask why or repeat the question

case in point, expecting me to explain a post that show the overall frustration many of your posts tend to cause myself and I assume others.

And before yo go the, "well don't read them" root, I tend to avoid your posts, but every now and then, depending on who I see posted last, I look at it because they are a poster whose posts I like to read.

You will get no further explanation from me on this point. I should be pretty obvious why you get the responses from me that you do at this point

Have a nice day

Well it would be pointless to ask you for any further explanation as it was not you but Monkey Turned Wolf who made the post that I was responding to. As such its he who would know what the point of his post is, not you.

 

[PhotonGuy]

As Gerry pointed it out, from what we've been told no one was offended. Beyond that
A: It was likely more of a lesson in the teacher's philosophy, in a light-hearted manner, then just meant to be comedy.
B: I don't even see how it would be offensive. I can't think of a single group of people that would be offended by it.

Lets say you're signing up for Boy Scouts and you ask the scoutmaster about what's required to be an Eagle Scout and he offers to sell you an Eagle Badge for $10 or so, how would you like that?

 

[PhotonGuy]

You are not alone. Our system has no Kyu Ranks. White Belt until your instructors feel that you understand and can apply the Black Belt Program teachings, then there is a ceremony where you receive your Shodan. Takes about 18 months if you really work hard on building the skills. You are doing full contact Bogu Kumite from the beginning and doing it every class. The advanced students are not going to take advantage of you because they went through the same procedures. And, they know if they do, they will be learning the error of their ways with someone who can take them apart in the next few minutes.
We use Master Nakamura's rank system in the Black Belts.
Of course we are Ryukyu Kenpo.

I've heard of styles that only have white and black for belt colors and no in between colors but I thought that it was outdated and they didn't do that anymore. To the best of my knowledge that's how it started, there was only white and black with no in between colors and then eventually they added brown and then they eventually added all the other colors.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Have a nice day

When someone said,

- "You are welcome." I always assume that he tries to tell me that I forgot to say, "Excuse me", or "Thank you."
- "Have a nice day." I always assume that he tries to tell me that he no longer want to talk to me anymore.

Am I wrong?

 

[PhotonGuy]

Different arts and schools have different interpretations of what a student's skill level should be at a given belt level. For most martial arts, a first degree black belt is typically mastery of the basics. Climbing beyond that is typically where people generally tend to develop more advanced skills. However, with arts such as BJJ, a 1st degree black belt is considered more than just mastery of the basics.

That's where Im coming from. I see a black belt as a mastery of the basics as you put it, and that once you make black belt you're ready to learn the real stuff. I see black belt as a point where you really start to make your own discoveries. When you're first taught some basic techniques on your first day you're only having them taught to you at the most beginner level and as you practice and develop them your instructors tell you to make all sorts of adjustments and corrections to make your techniques better and more effective. Techniques can always be better so no matter how advanced you are there is always a way to potentially make your techniques better but there comes a point where you start making your own discoveries about what works best for you without your instructors telling you what to fix. I see black belt as a point where you really start to make your own such discoveries.

At the end of the day, there are a lot of factors that should be taken into account with belt levels such as a school's requirements to pass a test. Are they belt factories? Do they require demonstration in open sparring? Is testing scaled based on individual people (disability, age, gender, etc.)? A higher belt doesn't necessarily mean you're more skilled, which is why a lot of others posting in this thread are saying ranks are meaningless. Unfortunately, people generally only begin to understand this once they're much more experienced martial artists no matter what others may tell them.

As far as a higher belt meaning you're more skilled that depends on your dojo and the system your instructor has for belt and rank advancement. At the Goju Ryu dojo I go to right now, the instructor does some formal testing but much of his testing he does just by watching you in class so much of the time you're being tested you won't know it. So if you're more skilled you will be wearing a more advanced belt and if you're less skilled you won't be wearing the more advanced belt. That's just how he does it.

At some dojos though they will run tests at regular intervals and you can choose to test if you want to although that doesn't mean you will pass. At such a dojo it is possible for a student to have a high level of skill and be wearing a low ranking belt because not all students care about belts and so there might be a student who never signs up to test because he doesn't care to test so he could be wearing a white belt and have the skill level of a green or brown belt. As I said, it depends on the system of advancement your instructor has.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well it would be pointless to ask you for any further explanation as it was not you but Monkey Turned Wolf who made the post that I was responding to. As such its he who would know what the point of his post is, not you.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Lets say you're signing up for Boy Scouts and you ask the scoutmaster about what's required to be an Eagle Scout and he offers to sell you an Eagle Badge for $10 or so, how would you like that?

If I asked how much the badge is, and he offered to sell it to me for $10, I'd find that hilarious.

 

[PhotonGuy]

 

[PhotonGuy]

If I asked how much the badge is, and he offered to sell it to me for $10, I'd find that hilarious.

You can get them for around that amount on eBay.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You can get them for around that amount on eBay.

Yes. And I'd find it hilarious if they made that comment.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Lets say you're signing up for Boy Scouts and you ask the scoutmaster about what's required to be an Eagle Scout and he offers to sell you an Eagle Badge for $10 or so, how would you like that?

I don't think that's analogous in tone.

 

[Hot Lunch]

I don't think that's analogous in tone.

Inquirer: "How long does it take to make it to this particular rank?"

Club representative: "I'll sell you the insignia for $10."

Definitely checks out.