Its about the journey not the destination

[PhotonGuy]

And you didn't manage to find out from them what they had done in order to test??

Nope. I just assumed that sensei had told them they could test. As you said before, perhaps I didn't socially engage enough with the other students.

I don't understand why it matters now, especially given that you have not graded further. You have referenced a number of times some kind of plan that involved you getting to first dan by a particular time. If you were never going to grade further, then what did it even matter?? Has this in some way stymied your grand plan for the rest of your martial career? Did you plan to go on to instruct and or open a dojo? Why does any of it matter? Why are we still talking about it?

There are lots of people who might get to a certain belt level and than not care to progress any further, that belt level might be first degree or it might not be. There is a guy at my dojo who made it to low brown, the first of the brown belt levels and three levels below first degree, and he doesn't care to promote any more. Nevertheless it was important for him to at least get a brown belt just like it was important for me to at least get first degree.
As for wanting to get a black belt by a certain time period, I had plans in life that depended on it and yes I do plan to eventually teach but I had other plans that relied on it too. I could go on and on but I don't want to bore you but I will say this much for now, one of the main reasons I wanted to get a black belt before I turned 20 is because doing certain stuff such as getting a black belt is what being a teenager is all about.
Now, why this matters and why we're still talking about it is because people are asking me stuff about it just like you did in this post. And Im answering.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Not if you don't let it. Many things happen to us in life that we have little or no control over, things happen that we could have dealt with differently or better but the trick to life is that while you don't have control over a lot of things you always have control over how you think about things and how you look at them. It's how people have survive horrors and unimaginable situations without breaking down. Let it go.

Stuff that you have no control over is one thing but stuff you do have control over is another matter. When you could've made the right decision but instead chose not to because the alternative was easier. That's what for me causes regret. I don't particularly agree with B.F. Skinner who claims that we really have control over nothing, including our own so called decisions.

 

[PhotonGuy]

It's hard sometimes not to think you are the only one in the world who has problems and other people's problems don't concern you but they do, it should matter to all of us because there but for the grace of G-d go you and I.
I make no apologies for totally derailing the thread, there is a purpose to this, for people to see that there is more than 'I' in life, there is 'us'.

Of course Im concerned with other people's problems that's why Im a youth rights activist and why Im in other organizations that fight for good causes that aren't for my greater good but for the greater good of society as a whole.

Now I've further derailed the thread, hopefully it won't get too much off track.

 

[Tez3]

Stuff that you have no control over is one thing but stuff you do have control over is another matter. When you could've made the right decision but instead chose not to because the alternative was easier. That's what for me causes regret. I don't particularly agree with B.F. Skinner who claims that we really have control over nothing, including our own so called decisions.

No it doesn't matter what the situation is you have control over how you feel about it. You make the wrong decision, tough, you learn and move on, there's no one who has never made a wrong decision, it educates us and we are better for it. You can make the decision now to leave this behind you and move on...and not answer anymore.

 

[Tez3]

Of course Im concerned with other people's problems that's why Im a youth rights activist and why Im in other organizations that fight for good causes that aren't for my greater good but for the greater good of society as a whole.

Now I've further derailed the thread, hopefully it won't get too much off track.

No, it needs to go off track if not off altogether.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Knowledge and skill are required for rank so therefore rank would be part of the journey. This wouldn't apply to styles that don't use rank and based on your approach to rank that you've made clear about 6,483 times yourself you don't sound like somebody who would use rank when you teach.

I do use rank, because it serves a purpose and because it's a part of the TKD traditions. I just don't think it's all that important, and unlike you, I don't think rank is the goal of training.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I do use rank, because it serves a purpose and because it's a part of the TKD traditions. I just don't think it's all that important, and unlike you, I don't think rank is the goal of training.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but you should realize that if you do use rank that some students will at least pursue it as a goal. They might not consider it the goal or the only goal but I would say most students who take up a system with rank will want to advance sooner or later.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but you should realize that if you do use rank that some students will at least pursue it as a goal. They might not consider it the goal or the only goal but I would say most students who take up a system with rank will want to advance sooner or later.

Some of our students are focused on rank. But they're also pre-pubescent, so I expect their focus - and their understanding- to be different. The adults and more advanced teens are all focused on skill as a measure of progress. Not belt color.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Some of our students are focused on rank. But they're also pre-pubescent, so I expect their focus - and their understanding- to be different. The adults and more advanced teens are all focused on skill as a measure of progress. Not belt color.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.

I would still think that eventually most of them would want to advance. If they've developed the skill they would want the rank that they earn with it. If its taking a student much longer than average to advance I think they would want to know why. Rank might not be a primary focus but most students I would think would care about it somewhat.

You could say the same thing about academics. Should grades be a focus in school? (A, B, C, D, F). Maybe students should be more focused on acquiring academic knowledge and proficiency rather than getting As, of course you need knowledge and proficiency to get As.

Its been said that comparing an A to a black belt is not a good analogy because an A is just a one time performance on a test whereas a black belt is the result of accumulated knowledge and skill over years of training. I think a better analogy would be an A not just for one test but for the entire semester, year, or when you graduate high school or college. Getting an A for an entire semester, or an entire year, or graduating high school or college with a 4.0 average you could say is the equivalent of a black belt in academics.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I would like to say that some people here have said that their instructor tells them when they will test for all belts, not just the black belt but all the belts. Then there are some instructors that allow students to choose if they want to test when the tests come up which might be every other month or every four months or whatever. It doesn't mean they will pass but they can test if they want. Anyway I would like to say that instructors who tell their students to test for all the belts, if the instructor is going to do it like that it should be for all the belts not just the black belt. If the instructor allows students to decide for themselves if they want to test when the tests come up it should be for all the belts including the black belt. It shouldn't be that an instructor allows students to decide if they will test for the other belts but requires that they tell the student when they will test for the black belt.

 

[Tez3]

 

[Gnarlie]

I'm out now, we have been around this loop so many times, the time has finally come to stop this crazy whirlygig of fun. PG, there are experts in their field here who have told you time and again that your view on many of these points is incorrect, if you are still in denial maybe it is time to pack up your opinions and keep them to yourself instead of repeating yourself over and over.

My final statements here are:

Assessment of martial arts and assessment of academic study are not comparable in any way that supports whatever point it is that you are trying to make, I don't know why you keep coming back to that point.

There is no equivalent of a black belt in academics. There isn't even equivalency between black belts. Rank only means anything inside of the organisation in which is is awarded. Which is one reason why we are concerned more with skill.

Instructors and examiners can run their testing process however they see fit - if you don't like it, don't participate.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I agree with Tez3 and Gnarlie. I'm just going to click "Disagree" on all the repetitious circular, long shown to be wrong posts. It's faster and easier.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Whatever. You all don't run my dojo and so therefore you don't set the rules there so therefore I don't see the point in debating this with you. My sensei does not get offended with students who ask about whats required for rank or what they need to do to get to the next rank. Anyway, one of the first persons who told me that myth at my dojo that you had to be told before you could test for the black belt was somebody who was no doubt full of pooh, he also told me he had some government job working for the FBI or something like that and that he had been to the Pentagon and that he had seen Navy SEALS doing crazy stuff there such as sparring full contact where they kick each other as hard as they can wearing combat boots which I think is a bunch of baloney because elite units including the Navy SEALS, well, its super duper expensive to train those guys and so therefore they don't want them to get unnecessarily hurt which includes sparring full contact with boots. Well I should've known better, guys who tell silly stories like that you can't trust about other stuff such as if you need to be told before you can test for a black belt.

Anyway, I just want to say, speaking of the Navy SEALS and all, at one time I wanted to be a Navy SEAL and if I had done that it would've been in my early 20s but first I had to get a black belt. Now, as far as I know the Navy does not require somebody to be a black belt prior to being a SEAL but it was a requirement I had for myself, a self imposed requirement I had for myself.

Now, I got that off my chest so hopefully I can be satisfied with that. Anyway, I just want to say that right now I am under the influence of alcohol so if what I say sounds a bit crazy you know why but hey, Im not driving. Now God bless you all and good night. In the name of Jesus I am not afraid to speak my mind. God bless.

P.S. getting a black belt is what being a teenager is all about. Now good night. God bless.

 

[Zero]

Anyway, I just want to say, speaking of the Navy SEALS and all, at one time I wanted to be a Navy SEAL and if I had done that it would've been in my early 20s but first I had to get a black belt. Now, as far as I know the Navy does not require somebody to be a black belt prior to being a SEAL but it was a requirement I had for myself, a self imposed requirement I had for myself.

In the words of Dr Leonard H. "Bones" McCoy: "My God man!!"

So this is not a great approach to life in anyway.

You have a goal, a great goal, a very, very challenging goal (a goal not obtainable by many who even try for it). And then to make sure you never get to really try for this goal, you put a made up goal of your own ahead of it in the queue as a pre-qualification requirement???...??!!

"I want to be a SEAL, but, you know, that's not like hard enough in itself, so I'm gonna have to get a black belt before I turn 20 before I can go for this and if I don't get that black belt, well, then, 'asta la pasta Navy SEALS!!"

P.S. getting a black belt is what being a teenager is all about. Now good night. God bless.

No, no it really is not. I really hope that was not your be all and end all focus as a teenager. And I really hope you don't really see that now as what teen-hood is all about...

 

[Zero]

I had to get that off my chest and now (I don't know if it will work, not sure if have the powers to pull it off), I am going to try this for everyone's sake...

 

[Zero]

THREAD LOCKED

 

[PhotonGuy]

That's simple. If belts are your goal, go buy one. There are plenty of places online that will sell you one with all the stripes and whatever you'd like.

No that's cheating.

 

[Dirty Dog]

No that's cheating.

 

[J. Pickard]

When talking about stuff such as rank or for that matter developing a certain level of proficiency in the martial arts which might not involve rank as not all styles use rank, people have pointed out that its about the journey not the destination. There has been some debate over what a black belt means. Some people say it just means you're a serious beginner and you're ready to learn the "real stuff" while other people say its at least equivalent to a college degree. It depends on the perspective and its all relative but I will say this, no matter how the black belt is viewed one thing is certain, it is not the end of the journey, at least not for people who keep training after getting a black belt. The journey in the martial arts is ongoing and never ending as long as the martial artist keeps training. So the black belt is not the end of the journey but you do reach a new leg in the journey. So while not everybody agrees on the black belt representing a serious beginner or somebody with a college degree or anywhere in between, which it does vary quite a bit since each dojo has its own standards, I do believe we can agree that its not the end of the journey and that it does, at the very least, represent reaching a new leg in the journey.

I would add a caveat that it shouldn't be the end. Unfortunately for many it is.