A
A.R.K.
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Chufeng :asian:
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Originally posted by A.R.K.
And should they offer it to those that demand or to those that respectfully request?
--As soon as you ask questions about the teacher's origins and instructors, you get a "I don't have to tell you because you're an idiot" behavior. Sure, there's obnoxious snooping, but there's also reasonable and expected questioning that must arise if you visit a dojo. One correspondent sent me a copy of a letter he received after he inquired about a great master's credentials. "I don't have to tell you, and besides, everyone knows I'm a master, so if you keep snooping, I will not talk to you," was the "master's" basic reply.
Puyallup??!!!! I have a grandson living in the Puget Sound area as well! I'd talk to him about visiting your school. Currently though, he's into MA, for self-defense and character building reasons, but he'd much rather play football and do track instead.Originally posted by chufeng
Many good points, Don.
Our school has had several "renegades" who opened schools with our founder's good wishes, but who then went on to "do their own thing." They were given permission to teach but were also to do so within the guidelines of the Association...they didn't.
One was charging a lot of money (up to $100/mo) for lessons and had strayed from the "standards" set down by sifu (who teaches for very little)...when they were told to get in line they said they had "grown beyond sifu's understanding." What a load of crap... My teacher is now 56 years old; he started training at the age of 7... He's trained many "black sash" level students but that does not qualify them for teaching our system...those who want to teach, must complete an instructor's course...After that they may open a school, with permission (and supervision, if they are below third level black sash)...yet, we've had first level students open schools and declare that sifu didn't know what he was talking about...BUT, they were more than willing to use the YiLi logo and name to promote the stuff they developed...they have since changed the name of what they do (after a visit, or threatened visit, by my senior, Mr. Burgess)...
Funnier still, I've met black belts from MANY different styles...I've trained with them...and they ask me to teach them...I hold to the standards of my teacher...how is it that senior folk in other styles desire to learn YiLi as it was intended to be taught? and at the same time, those who have broken away are finding it difficult? Because the system works...those who let their ego get in the way of real learning and then make claims to some grandiose rank and knowledge really do piss me off...and that is why I am so suspicious of claims of sokeship...and dan ranks beyond 7th.
But even in the little town of Puyallup, Washington, there are no less than three grandmasters advertising in the yellow pages...go figure...
:asian:
chufeng
Once a person has made a claim, it is their responsibility to then prove it no matter what they think of the attitude of the person demanding the proof.
If someone claims to be teaching a Japanese art, they should be found in a Japanese source.
If someone claims to have gotten a rank from someone, then givng their name in public is a good start.
And posting their certificates on the internet where people who read Japanese can see it is a good move.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
Unless you personally know....you don't know.
Originally posted by akja
Thats my point the material is no longer the same.
Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Arnisador knows nbcdecon, my Modern Arnis teacher. Through nbcdecon, I have learned a little about Arnisador. Therefore, lacking the ability to meet Arnisador in person, and having respect for nbcdecon's skills and insights, I feel I know about Arnisador from a credible source.
Originally posted by arnisador
Of course, this is unfair--like most of my friends in the service, he's a very nice guy who'd say polite and upbeat things about anyone. To the extent that he's spoken well of me I'm sure he's exaggerated and to the extent that he's spoken critically of me I'm sure he's cut it in half.
It's been years since I've seen nbcdecon but Mr. Hartman keeps me informed of his doings in Japan. The last time we were together I was helping him stretch during warm-up--he had his leg just about directly over his head while standing on the other one.
Ah, it's a small world--we have one degree of separation, you and I!
Puyallup??!!!! I have a grandson living in the Puget Sound area as well!
Originally posted by A.R.K.
People in countries around the world train in styles from other parts of the world. These systems have migrated extensively. An American studying a Ryu in the Middle East from an Arabic teacher should have ties to Asian sources? With respect I disagree.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
Sources often mean money has to be spent for approval/recognition which does nothing towards the actual ability of the practitioner.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
One does not need membership however in any organization to 'better' their training.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
Many instructors are private individuals that aren't looking for internet attention.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
And unless you know every teacher in the world...what does a name really do towards credibility? Someone with an agenda could merely say 'never heard of em'.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
Any foriegn language can be copied and produced at Kinco's and posted. Stamps and seals can be bought in the back of magazines. Just because it's readable doesn't make it credible.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
As I've already said, there is really no evidence that can be offered that can't be negatively spoken against even if authentic and reputable.
Originally posted by akja
But if you could please show me "who and where" these traditional schools are that are already "training in all ranges of combat with the belief that all fighting ranges should be understood and practiced together", I would really like to check them out.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
Any foriegn language can be copied and produced at Kinco's and posted. Stamps and seals can be bought in the back of magazines. Just because it's readable doesn't make it credible.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
Unless you personally know....you don't know.
:asian:
Originally posted by Don Roley
But 99 times out of 100 they come back and say, "lineages/rank aren't important- fighting is and we can fight!" Oh? If lineages aren't important, why did you mention them in the first place? And why should we trust your word that you guys can fight?
Try looking at places other than the mallOriginally posted by akja
When I say almost repackaging. I'm achknowledging the fact that somewhere in time somebody has done it all before.
I try to "present the whole package" you might say. What is differant is the "amount" ground grappling I emphasize. Not to mention the standup comes from Jun Fan. Everybody is saying "we grapple." but from what I've observed, they don't put much time in it.
I'm a natural standup fighter, so for me to talk "emphasizing" ground grappling, then there must be something there.
I don't teach someone to think of the ground as a first choice but I do teach them what to do when they are there and if someone is better at standup than them, then yes use the ground.
Last time I checked the only people who take ground grappling serious are grapplers. The majority of the the standup arts are weak in their ground game. I know what I'm talking about. I've rolled with all types, and the standup fighters show up for "pure matwork" because they don't get that in their schools.
But if you could please show me "who and where" these traditional schools are that are already "training in all ranges of combat with the belief that all fighting ranges should be understood and practiced together", I would really like to check them out.
Person A knows Persons B, C, and D personally. They train together, have coffee together, etc. Person B knows Persons E, F and G. By extension, then, if Person B says that Person A is well skilled, but Person C couldn't find their butt with both hands and a map, and Persons E, F and G have reason to believe that Person B knows what he/she is talking about, then they have credible evidence pointing to the fact that Person A kicks butt, and Person C can't find his...
And like I said before several times, at some point you have to trust somebody...
A Japanese art that has never been heard of in Japan, only the Middle East? Silly.
If someone wanted to say they trained in a Japanese martial art, but there was not even a single Japanese source for it like the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten, that is a pretty clear sign that someone is lying.
Someone can always take such an attitude.
Japanese is a difficult language and the chances that someone could peice one together without some ability is roughly the same as putting a monkey in a room with a typewriter and having it duplicate
Well actually you cant just go to Kinkos and get them made.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
RyuShiKan,
Anything can be duplicated with enough time and effort.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
Ability over paper.
That is stupid talk. If an instructor is teaching a Japanese art in the Middle East, he should have some connection to Japan. If an instructor is teaching a Middle Eastern art in Japan, he should have ties to the Middle East, as simple as that. If a Nigerian TKD association awards someone a black belt, then it really isn't worth anything out there in the real world, I'm sorry. When the guy receives a 9th dan from the Nigerian TKD association, and advertises that he has a 9th degree, but his sources don't check out with Kukkiwon, then it isn't worth it. Like everyone poitned out, if rank isn't important, why do they mention that they have a 9th degree from some second-hand organization?Originally posted by A.R.K.
You misread my post. I said someone who has trained in a particular style [Japan or other] in the middle east by an Arabic instructor need not have any direct connection to the [alleged] originating country. If Mr. Smith an American lives in Nigeria and wishes to take TKD from a Nigerian national instructor he may do so. If he wishes to belong to a Nigerian TKD association or any other he may do so. But if he chooses not to that is fine as well. It is not going to increase his skill one iota to pay the high fees demanded by the Kukkiwon just to have their peace of paper.
:asian: [/B]