Gettin' tired.........

[The Kai]

Well, typically, and I'm not saying this is an example... but typically the "I'm leaving this board" post is an attention-getting device similar to taking your ball and going home. I think we are supposed to reply with "Oh no please don't go we will change for you".

But I'm sure RR is above all that.

-David

Sure there is the sense that he is taking is marbles and going home. But, lets atke alook at what the forums have gained and lost.

First, we have lost

Someone Sincere in his art
Someone with a good amount of time invested in a system
Someone knowledeable in the history of the arts
Someone immersed in the culture
Someone who tends to be pretty candid

What we gained

Someone seemly on a self centered ego trip
Some that skipped system to system with a cursurory understanding before being granted Sokeship(at a rather young age)
Someone whose knowledge of the arts is somewhat lacking
Someone who is big on evasions

My own take-I have not always agreed with RRouselet, Doc or even Black cat Bones (Shawn)et al. but I always gained something from the talk. I know how they train, whom they trained with, and while I might not agree I respect them. (opinion do vary) Then there are the folks that it is a waste of time, energy, knowledge and grey matter to talk with.

Hell, if you are not confordable with some of these individual listen more, maybe they are saying more then the average smuck

 

[chinto01]

It pains me to see anyone leave a forum group. There will be disagreements with all of us but this is the place to work things out and discuss it is it not? Some people are just more passionate about things than others and that is o.k.

Where I have a problem is the claims some people make about their ranks. I am one who firmly believes that a belt is nothing more than something to hold your gi top closed. You can have all of the certificates you want on the wall but if you do not get on the mat it is all worthless. A person however who claims "Soke" which is awarded by a committee that does not even review you in person is where I have the problem. Remember belts were not given on Okinawa until the 1900's I believe. Funny but maybe they had it right in the beginning. Just a thought.

 

[Gemini]

Being fairly new here, I never had the opportunity to have a discussion with him, but I will say that the reason I'm here is to learn from people like him. I am familiar with the other "gentleman" in question and would not AT ALL consider it a fair trade. He can call himself whatever he wants in his own bathroom, but really should watch where he's waivin' that "Altered reality self-important" thing in public. Shame....

 

[Jaymeister]

I don't see how it's beneficial for the board to have valuable members leave. How is MT gonna get better, if the people who actually have the right attitude start leaving?

 

[The Kai]

But you traded up to Soke staus with a ton of misinformation, shady training, self help philosophy and a excellent grasp on all things historical:mp5:

 

[Makalakumu]

Sure there is the sense that he is taking is marbles and going home. But, lets atke alook at what the forums have gained and lost.

First, we have lost

Someone Sincere in his art
Someone with a good amount of time invested in a system
Someone knowledeable in the history of the arts
Someone immersed in the culture
Someone who tends to be pretty candid

What we gained

Someone seemly on a self centered ego trip
Some that skipped system to system with a cursurory understanding before being granted Sokeship(at a rather young age)
Someone whose knowledge of the arts is somewhat lacking
Someone who is big on evasions

My own take-I have not always agreed with RRouselet, Doc or even Black cat Bones (Shawn)et al. but I always gained something from the talk. I know how they train, whom they trained with, and while I might not agree I respect them. (opinion do vary) Then there are the folks that it is a waste of time, energy, knowledge and grey matter to talk with.

Hell, if you are not confordable with some of these individual listen more, maybe they are saying more then the average smuck

Unfortunately, because of the rules of this forum, we will continue to lose valuable resources. Other resources, won't even consider coming to this forum. Our Kodanja, for example (my teacher included) do not like the current format of this forum and refuse to come here.

Thus the value of the information available on Martial Talk decreases faster then it increases.

(and no, I am not saying that there are no good resources here on Martial Talk or that this is a bad forum. I love it here. I would like to see it become better!)

The current rules of the forum favor more "informal exchanges" that are polite and respectful. These "informal" exchanges allow shady folks who can converse about martial topics to slip in and spread whatever.

In my opinion, a few rule changes will create a more formal environment that will (hopefully) weed out some of the shadier folks...

1. Require full name in public profile.
2. Require full disclosure of rank, art, or seniority in public profile.
3. Close accounts of those with obviously unverifiable claims.

I don't want to start any witch hunts, but it would be nice to know who I'm talking too and where they are coming from. That way, if someone starts posting from a position of authority I can see better where they are coming from.

These are just a few thoughts from the top of my head and none of it may even be possible. If so, oh well, I've enjoyed Martial Talk up to this point and I will continue to enjoy it in the future.

Robert, I hope you come back soon. I'd like to continue our discussion regarding the links between Tang Soo Do and the Okinawan arts...

upnorthkyosa

 

[The Kai]

UpNorth

How's the weather up there?
What does Kodanja Mean??

I think it would be nice to know the names and background a little bit. But what about the lurker of casual poster? What about the few souls that what to look, learn and listen?

 

[Makalakumu]

How's the weather up there?

Great! It's 50 degrees and I'm wearing shorts. The temp is supposed to get up to 65 today. Heatwave, eh! My inlaws live in Madison and sometimes is hard to think that we live in the same state!

What does Kodanja Mean???

Yodanda is 1st through 3rd dan. Kodanja is 4th dan and above in our art. They form a separate group among TangSooDoin...an Inner School if you will.

I think it would be nice to know the names and background a little bit. But what about the lurker of casual poster? What about the few souls that what to look, learn and listen?

I don't think it would affect those people too much. Although, I do think that the rule changes would reduce our membership. Hopefully, the obviously fraudulent would pack up and move elsewhere...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Couple of points:

1. Require full name in public profile.

This is currently optional. Some people, especially the females wish to remain anonymous, for safety reasons. In addition, who will verify that the name given is in fact real? Just because someone says they are "John Smith" doesn't mean they are, or aren't.

2. Require full disclosure of rank, art, or seniority in public profile.

Is a 5th degree kenpo equal to, or of greater or lesser rank than a 5th degree TKD?

3. Close accounts of those with obviously unverifiable claims.

Who verifies? #3 will only happen if things get disruptive.


Now, for those looking for a spot to get "serious" and set some requirements that are a bit more shall we say, strict, than normal, we're always willing to setup private/semi-private or public areas under the hosted forums guidelines. We run a few "private" areas, and more are always welcome. For info on setting that up, contact me directly.
This way, you can have an private/semiprivate area that requires full public disclosure, certified rank, etc. if you wish, while allowing the lurkers and anonymous folks to use the other sections of the site in peace.

 

[clfsean]

Unfortunately, because of the rules of this forum, we will continue to lose valuable resources. Other resources, won't even consider coming to this forum. Our Kodanja, for example (my teacher included) do not like the current format of this forum and refuse to come here.

Thus the value of the information available on Martial Talk decreases faster then it increases.

(and no, I am not saying that there are no good resources here on Martial Talk or that this is a bad forum. I love it here. I would like to see it become better!)

The current rules of the forum favor more "informal exchanges" that are polite and respectful. These "informal" exchanges allow shady folks who can converse about martial topics to slip in and spread whatever.

Ain't it the truth...

In my opinion, a few rule changes will create a more formal environment that will (hopefully) weed out some of the shadier folks...

1. Require full name in public profile.
2. Require full disclosure of rank, art, or seniority in public profile.
3. Close accounts of those with obviously unverifiable claims.

I don't want to start any witch hunts, but it would be nice to know who I'm talking too and where they are coming from. That way, if someone starts posting from a position of authority I can see better where they are coming from.

We do that at Budoseek with the names & it tends to keep people honest. I'm all in favor of it. It works really well. I'd use my name here instead, but I registered a long time ago & couldn't remember my password & it was just easier to create a new account. We don't do the #2 & #3 options, but I wouldn't be against it.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Unfortunately, because of the rules of this forum, we will continue to lose valuable resources. Other resources, won't even consider coming to this forum. Our Kodanja, for example (my teacher included) do not like the current format of this forum and refuse to come here.

Thus the value of the information available on Martial Talk decreases faster then it increases.

(and no, I am not saying that there are no good resources here on Martial Talk or that this is a bad forum. I love it here. I would like to see it become better!)

. . .

John,

Let me look at a couple of other sites as comparison to your comments.

Bullshido - this site allows anyone to run around and call names to others even though it is against their own rules. They allow for anyone to say anything, and they have no respect for anyone who is not MMA.

eBudo - this site when I tried to visit was business, and if you were no in the know it was really difficult to get along there as well.

So, as Bob our Tech Admin and owner of the site has stated, we will gladly host a private form for you, yet, how do we improve MartialTalk with out becoming one or both of the sites I mentioned above.

And before anyone gets upset, both sites have their purpose and serve it, and support people who are looking for said type of attitudes and feeling of the site. Nothing I said was negative about either sites, only gave my personal opinion on what I saw.

So as a member, asking another member what can be done to improve this site. (* Start another thread please, if you so wish *)

Thank you

Rich

 

[Makalakumu]

Couple of points:

1. Require full name in public profile.

This is currently optional. Some people, especially the females wish to remain anonymous, for safety reasons. In addition, who will verify that the name given is in fact real? Just because someone says they are "John Smith" doesn't mean they are, or aren't.

2. Require full disclosure of rank, art, or seniority in public profile.

Is a 5th degree kenpo equal to, or of greater or lesser rank than a 5th degree TKD?

3. Close accounts of those with obviously unverifiable claims.

Who verifies? #3 will only happen if things get disruptive.

I thought about those things, too. Yet, I put it out anyway just to get a discussion flowing. There is no way to check fake names unless one is on a witch hunt. Yet, it might encourage more people to use their real names too???

I don't think comparison is the purpose of disclosure of art and rank. I think the purpose would be to get an idea of background.

If someone comes out and says, I am a 10th dan Soke in Ninja Turtle Ryu or something else really screwy and it is called to the attention of the mods, perhaps there could be a way to address this???

Now, for those looking for a spot to get "serious" and set some requirements that are a bit more shall we say, strict, than normal, we're always willing to setup private/semi-private or public areas under the hosted forums guidelines. We run a few "private" areas, and more are always welcome. For info on setting that up, contact me directly.

This way, you can have an private/semiprivate area that requires full public disclosure, certified rank, etc. if you wish, while allowing the lurkers and anonymous folks to use the other sections of the site in peace.

I didn't know anything about this. It sounds kinda cool. Robert, maybe you would want to sponsor something like this? I think that options like this help make MT a neat place to talk about Martial Arts.

Thanks Kaith

upnorthkyosa

 

[Makalakumu]

John,

Let me look at a couple of other sites as comparison to your comments.

Bullshido - this site allows anyone to run around and call names to others even though it is against their own rules. They allow for anyone to say anything, and they have no respect for anyone who is not MMA.

eBudo - this site when I tried to visit was business, and if you were no in the know it was really difficult to get along there as well.

So, as Bob our Tech Admin and owner of the site has stated, we will gladly host a private form for you, yet, how do we improve MartialTalk with out becoming one or both of the sites I mentioned above.

And before anyone gets upset, both sites have their purpose and serve it, and support people who are looking for said type of attitudes and feeling of the site. Nothing I said was negative about either sites, only gave my personal opinion on what I saw.

So as a member, asking another member what can be done to improve this site. (* Start another thread please, if you so wish *)

Thank you

Rich

Thanks Rich, for your opinion. I don't know much about any other forums. I only go to MT because I think it is a good site and because it is all I really have time for.

Perhaps this is just one of those situations where it is impossible to please everyone...

Robert, in my opinion, I think MT is a pretty good place. Hopefully, you'll hook back up with us soon.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Thanks Rich, for your opinion. I don't know much about any other forums. I only go to MT because I think it is a good site and because it is all I really have time for.

Perhaps this is just one of those situations where it is impossible to please everyone...

Robert, in my opinion, I think MT is a pretty good place. Hopefully, you'll hook back up with us soon.

John,

This was not meant to make you go away or be quiet, I am honestly interested in trying to improve. So if you think of some thing let us all know.

Thank you

 

[The Kai]

Well tommorow the only city in Wis is due for 90 degrees> Yahoo

 

[47MartialMan]

1. Require full name in public profile.

This is currently optional. Some people, especially the females wish to remain anonymous, for safety reasons. In addition, who will verify that the name given is in fact real? Just because someone says they are "John Smith" doesn't mean they are, or aren't.

I like anoyminity. I will PM a member about my real name in confidence that they do not post it in open forum. The fact they member choose a forum nickname other than their real name is evident of this. I know a forum that doesnt allow nivknames-only full names. Leaving andbody to visit the site, retrieve names, and spam. Also locate people for various reasons.

2. Require full disclosure of rank, art, or seniority in public profile.

Is a 5th degree kenpo equal to, or of greater or lesser rank than a 5th degree TKD?

This has been my point in thread:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23684&goto=newpost
Because there are no universal stanadrds, people have different views on what is the criteria/guidelines for rank. the mon=ment some sya they are a particular rank, others will not agree based upon their own opinion on whta is a requiremnet for that rank.

3. Close accounts of those with obviously unverifiable claims.

Who verifies? #3 will only happen if things get disruptive.

Yes, it would be like for example, the attempt of the US government assigning a panel/board, to set standards.


Now, this I by no means to state that people with opposite opinions cannot voice their opinion. But cannot request that others be removed.

 

[47MartialMan]

Bullshido - this site allows anyone to run around and call names to others even though it is against their own rules. They allow for anyone to say anything, and they have no respect for anyone who is not MMA.

Because some people are entained by profanity, insolent, and controversy.

eBudo - this site when I tried to visit was business, and if you were no in the know it was really difficult to get along there as well.

Care to explain a little more? Perhaps PM me.

So, as Bob our Tech Admin and owner of the site has stated, we will gladly host a private form for you, yet, how do we improve MartialTalk with out becoming one or both of the sites I mentioned above.

By remaining neutral and polite. this site is one of two sites that I had visted among a dozen.

And before anyone gets upset, both sites have their purpose and serve it, and support people who are looking for said type of attitudes and feeling of the site. Nothing I said was negative about either sites, only gave my personal opinion on what I saw.

Thta is the basis of forums instead of dictatorship.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Care to explain a little more? Perhaps PM me.

eBudo, is a nice sight very knowledgeable.

If you do not study Japanese arts in detail and do not know the right way to ask a question, as I was, I was ignored, nothing rude other than no reply. I felt like since I did not know enough of an arts terminology I was not worthy to be involved in a discussion. I respect that this is how they decide to operate. I respect that people do not wish to take the time to try to educate every person off the internet, who does not have the get up and go enough to go learn it themselves.

But that was just my impression, and like I said nothing rude was said, no one insulted me, and no attacked me.

I understand this is great for some and not so great for others. Being an American, I recognize that there are different brands and color to market to people who want something different or something specific. I used it as an example of something different from this site.

 

[Miles]

This thread is going off-topic.

I am sorry that Robert felt the need to take a break and sincerely hope that he does return. I found his posts informative even if the tone was strong.

The reasons he cited for leaving are however, (in my opinion only), pretty weak, but it is his decision to whether he stays and posts, lurks, or goes. This is martial arts and sometimes you have to sift through and endure a lot of crap to find the nugget of gold. I think most of those who followed the threads he referenced agreed with him totally. I do.

Miles

 

[rutherford]

Yes and No.

Yes, it's true that sifting through the crap is part of the internet experience and to be expected.

No, I don't think his reasons are garbage. I think his opinions on the claims of others have always been 100%. Well, I reserve the right to say that I think a no-touch knockout is possible, but also will admit that it typically involves convincing the other person to slam their head into a mighty hard object.

As for how this applies to the board, I'd think that we should definitely be able to say, "That's utter BS, what you're saying is uninformed and x, y, and z are why." That's just about the spreading of information and clarification.

I'm also perfectly comfortable with a board that doesn't allow personal attacks like, "You're so full of ****! You're lineage is made up, your instructor never existed, and you couldn't **** your way out of a balloon! Get out of here before I [insert personal threat]." OR even indirect personal attacks like, "This is a clear case of somebody talking out their ***. I think we can totally ignore this shitbag."

I especially like the current rule about following somebody throughout multiple threads to carry on a personal attack. In my opinion, this forum should always be about the spread of intelligent discussion (or at least something worth laughing or being entertained about). It should NEVER be about personal egos or personal attacks.

If somebody is a fraud, point it out by showing how everything they claim is incorrect. The rest of us are smart enough to draw our own conclusions. You don't have to lower yourself to their level or below, and you don't have to get upset about it.

We can all be respectful, and truthful.