Claims on the Internet.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by chufeng
Note: generic reply...

It is interesting that that site claims to be

Why does TKD need to be promoted AS a martial art in the US?
Is it not a martial art in other places?
Or are we to be duped into thinking it really is a martial art, when in fact it isn't?

I am not trying to start another argument...just posing an interesting twist on the "promotion of TaeKwonDo" by the USTW.



chufeng

Do a search on TKD and the “Moonies” (Rev. Sung Yung Moon) and how he wanted to control all MA in America………scary stuff

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
The average age for a yuk dan holder is around the high 40s to 50s.

Not in the States. Tae Kwon Do especially seems filled with inflated ranks. It's common to see third degrees who are well under 18. Look here:

I saw a boy around 8-10 years old at 7th degree Black Belt.
...
My Instructor has done somenthing I disagree with. he has made some 4 year olds Jr Instructors. I thought they had to be at least 6. and one of them whines and cries when it is time to come to class. At 4 I don't think they undestand the meaning of being a Jr. instructor.

(ATA Tae Kwon Do)

Like it or not, it's not very unusual here in my experience. Whether a given TKD organization is different, say ITF or WTF, I don't know. But high ranks in TKD at young ages--even leaving aside the bizarre extremes above--are not uncommon.

 

[MartialArtist]

Political instability would have caused many Koreans to migrate to the US. My parents were one of them, especially my father being from what is North Korea today. So unless the organization you posted was older than Kukkiwon (1972)... But the organization gives no date. Also notice, the organization only says that it gives dan certificates that are only locally and nationally known. But more locally, because I have lived in the Midwest, and have never heard of them, but that doesn't mean anything. What's important is that most people recognize Kukkiwon, but not USTW. It's like comparing the IB Program with AP. The IB program is internationally known, internationally accepted, and have higher standards than AP classes.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
WOW,

I'm not scrambling, I will post the certificate. I want them to see it I supose I could have been scammed by a MCdojo like so many other americans and what better way to prove it than to bring it to forums like this with others whom have Knowledge to share.

I did not post my rank here because of this but someone went to our web site found it and here it is, I dont mind defending it because I beleive it to be true and I am proud of it, I lost alot of blood sweat and tears to earn it! also too many trips to they emergency room. I understand your point and respect your opinion I to usually dont where a belt and I am a very humble person, but I do not feel this is going to be a circular discussion.

In all fairness to you DAC, since I have been busting your chops, you very well could be better than many of the “authorized” folks of the same rank you claim.
I was a member of the JKF for over 10 years, (my rank was issued by an Okinawa which caused a lot of grief to the Japanese…long story) and I met a lot of bloated rank Japanese that “blew dog” in the immortal words of Ford Fairlane. I mean they couldn't do squat but thought they ate coal and dropped diamonds out the other end.

 

[Disco]

You doubt me? Your the one that posted the Kukkiwon requirements. Yes 9th dan Kukkiwon is 53. 8th Dan Kukkiwon is 44 and so on. Your the one that stated 6th Dan was late 40's to 50's. As far as some of these Korean Masters holding 9th Dans. They hold 8th Dan Kukkiwon and 9th Dan in the particular Style/Association thay teach and belong to.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by arnisador
Not in the States. Tae Kwon Do especially seems filled with inflated ranks. It's common to see third degrees who are well under 18. Look here:

(ATA Tae Kwon Do)

Like it or not, it's not very unusual here in my experience. Whether a given TKD organization is different, say ITF or WTF, I don't know. But high ranks in TKD at young ages--even leaving aside the bizarre extremes above--are not uncommon.

I am aware of this dilemma, there are a bunch of these schools around in my area, located near malls, etc.

The real question: Would he be internationally accepted? If the guy transferred from his school, to another school, would it work? If he went to Korea to train, would he be accepted at that rank? Hell no. Well, maybe they might let him keep his belt, being a cute kid with a black belt and all. But he would not be accepted even locally as a black belt.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Disco
You doubt me? Your the one that posted the Kukkiwon requirements. Yes 9th dan Kukkiwon is 53. 8th Dan Kukkiwon is 44 and so on. Your the one that stated 6th Dan was late 40's to 50's. As far as some of these Korean Masters holding 9th Dans. They hold 8th Dan Kukkiwon and 9th Dan in the particular Style/Association thay teach and belong to.

Please try to read the entire thread. Notice I said I was OFF in my estimations. Why won't you try calling Kukkiwon? They can give you how many x dans there are for each age group.

 

[arnisador]

Please, keep the discussion general and not focused on any one individual's rank/certification/lineage.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[MartialArtist]

http://www.wkimtkd.com/instructors.htm - That's an example good school from the looks of it. Yes, it's geared more towards exhibition/sport/competition, but there are self-defense classes for those who are interested.

Look at his own children, who've been training their whole lives. Even with all their references, they are 4th and 5th dan respectively and they trained their whole lives.

Anyway, look at the instructors in the "Other instructors" category. Bob Bartels is over 50, and only a 3rd dan.

 

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
In all fairness to you DAC, since I have been busting your chops, you very well could be better than many of the “authorized” folks of the same rank you claim.
I was a member of the JKF for over 10 years, (my rank was issued by an Okinawa which caused a lot of grief to the Japanese…long story) and I met a lot of bloated rank Japanese that “blew dog” in the immortal words of Ford Fairlane. I mean they couldn't do squat but thought they ate coal and dropped diamonds out the other end.

I have never questioned the authenticity of my certificates in these organizations nor have I ever followed up to check to see if their even registered.

I do know that I have been a student of TKD for over 20 years and in that time I have learned and taught alot.

I have been in competitions with american and even some korean students, I have always done well and can say that even if the kukkiwon does not recognize my rank and I was scrood (wich I highly doubt) I will still have all the knowledge I have learned over the years no-one can take that from me, and thats all that really matters to me.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
I will still have all the knowledge I have learned over the years no-one can take that from me, and thats all that really matters to me.

Yup!

 

[RyuShiKan]

Sorry.........couldn't resist........

 

[DAC..florida]

O.K.

I cant beleive I have been on the computer this long its almost 1:00 am and I have to work in the morning so Ill be back tommorrow.

 

[MartialArtist]

Arnisador, could you do a favor for me and find out what organizations the schools with the 3rd degree black belt kids? I have my hunches that the school is from a small, independent organization and if it happens to belongs to Kukkiwon, etc., ask how they got around the requirements? If you look at the charts, there is a time lapse where you can't test, and the higher rank you have, the longer you can't test. And people don't realize, testing gets VERY strict once you get in front of people very high... One mistake, and you're almost doomed to fail.

I see the two topics related. They are intertwined. If someone gets an 8th dan from some remote organization, it is "technically" true that they have an 8th dan. However, none of their sources check out due to them not being in the standard organizations. Not only that, most remote organizations have lower standards, focus on poomsae and memorization than skills, experience, and physical and mental prowess. And most of the time, people who have dan ranks from anything other than the standard are usually labeled as frauds - a lot of the time, they aren't frauds, just don't know any better and don't have the skills comparable to their counterparts of more recognized organizations.

 

[Disco]

Just rechecked your posts and did'nt see where you said your were "Off". Non the less, everything is cool, we have established the correct information. Thanks for your input.

The reason for the advent of the USTW is MONEY. All these guardians of TKD were members of the USTU, which is in charge of the TKD Olympic team and training etc. They along with the AAU, another Organization that has expanded into TKD want to control the Olympic purse stings in America. You could drown in the political waters when the next Olympic come rolling around. My former Master Instructor is involved with this new group and lets just say he has some baggage in the trunk. God how I hate Politics in the Arts. But it's all over. Even Mr. Ryu has encountered his share I would assume.

 

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Sorry.........couldn't resist........

Dont be sorry as you know I am one of those who mix and I found humor in that post. roflmao

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
Dont be sorry as you know I am one of those who mix and I found humor in that post. roflmao

I just thought things were getting a tad too serious and thought it might break things up a bit.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Disco
Just rechecked your posts and did'nt see where you said your were "Off". Non the less, everything is cool, we have established the correct information. Thanks for your input.

The reason for the advent of the USTW is MONEY. All these guardians of TKD were members of the USTU, which is in charge of the TKD Olympic team and training etc. They along with the AAU, another Organization that has expanded into TKD want to control the Olympic purse stings in America. You could drown in the political waters when the next Olympic come rolling around. My former Master Instructor is involved with this new group and lets just say he has some baggage in the trunk. God how I hate Politics in the Arts. But it's all over. Even Mr. Ryu has encountered his share I would assume.

Guess we were both wrong DAC. I was wrong, there probably are people with 6th dans that are younger than my estimations.

On pg. 16

 

[RyuShiKan]

Sorry.......I am back now........just lost my head for a second.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Here is an example of a pretty standard menjo.
I have shrunk it and deleted some of the more important lines so it won’t be pirated.
Notice the triple hanko to prevent forgery or copying, also of note it is hand written.