Can you learn from video?

[Tez3]

And Tez3 followed you down the same rabbit-hole. You both tell me something can never work that I have had work just fine for me on more than on occasion. Yet you both call me "arrogant"? Well, you two just carry on as you see fit. I think I am now done with this discussion.

Actually I never said 'it won't work' if you are going to quote me do it correctly, don't put words into my mouth. I never said 'it won't work' I said if you want to learn to do something competently and safely you need to be taught in person not learn from a video, I'm sure people can 'learn' all sorts from videos but not correctly, not safely and not competently from knowing nothing at all. You say you learnt things from videos, fine but how do we know that what you do is competent? Videos are good for checking, for polishing and for learning how a sequence in kata goes on but to actually learn to do it you need someone showing you the correct techniques etc.

 

[Flying Crane]

Seems to me that what you are really doing is looking for validation in what you are doing.

---Ok. If it makes you happy. Sure. Are you not looking for validation of your own ideas? Is that not why you keep posting the same assertions over and over?


upset that some would point out the glaring flaws in your approach, and obsessively certain you are right, arrogant enough to believe that you are that rare individual who can gain some success in this manner.

----I have said several times now that we can agree to disagree on the value of video training. But you have continued to press your point that one cannot start out with video before an instructor. So just who is being "arrogant" and "obsessively certain" here?? I am not the only one that has protested to you lumping everyone into the same category that you are now calling a "rare individual." Apparently, it isn't as rare as you think.

---I probably shouldn't write this, and will likely get a "moderator warning" for it, but oh well. I'm sure I will be accused of being "arrogant" and such, but oh well. I'm probably doing it out of "ego" and "seeking validation", but oh well. Some might find it amusing. But I'm sure you will just gloss over it like everything else I have written. But oh well.

1. You have repeatedly maintained that in my OP I said that someone could learn a martial art entirely and solely from video. This despite the fact that multiple times I have reposted my comment from my OP where I said that hands on instruction was better and that eventually the video learner would have to seek out hands on instruction. Others have backed me up and suggested you go back and read my OP again. Don't you realize how stupid that makes you look?

2. You have repeatedly maintained that I have "glaring flaws" in my idea that someone can start learning from video prior to finding an instructor and have said that it cannot work, despite the fact that I have pointed out how it has indeed worked well for me personally on more than one occasion. Despite that fact that others here have said the same thing. So obviously what you maintain does not apply to everyone. Don't you realize how stupid that makes you look?

3. You have said that I have "backed myself into a corner" and that I have "back pedaled" or made an "about face", despite the fact that I have simply repeated what I wrote in my OP over and over and have never changed my position on things. Don't you realize how stupid that makes you look?

And Tez3 followed you down the same rabbit-hole. You both tell me something can never work that I have had work just fine for me on more than on occasion. Yet you both call me "arrogant"? Well, you two just carry on as you see fit. I think I am now done with this discussion.

Ah. Ok then. Fixed my little red wagon you did.
Meh.

 

[geezer]

Three well informed forum members I've learned never to argue with: KPM, Tez, and most of all, Chris Parker.

With KPM and Tez you can sometimes persuade them to reconsider your point of view, but never go at them head-on. With Chris, it's best to just quietly bow out. I've never seen him change his mind or give up, no matter how many pages of argumentation and multi-quotes it takes. It's like trying to argue with my wife.

Now when any of these smart and stubborn people lock horns, the only thing to do is sit back and grab the popcorn!

 

[Tez3]

grab the popcorn!

What flavour? I love salted popcorn!


Of course I argue, I'm female, Scorpio and Jewish why wouldn't I argue lol. Seriously though the Jewish thing about arguing is true, we must examine everything, an unexamined life is not a life. It's not that KPM disagrees with my point that is mildly annoying, it's that he doesn't know what it is, he's mixed it up with Flying Cranes argument. My premise is quite simple ... you cannot learn martial arts (along with a lot of other things) from scratch from a video and that's it, a complete beginner cannot be expected to pick up a physical activity and perform it to a competent standard ( a safe one too) without someone to correct them in the beginning. To try to teach yourself then find an instructor is the wrong way round, find a teacher which incidentally is a saying from the Sayings of the Jewish Fathers a book of wisdom.

 

[SaulGoodman]

What flavour? I love salted popcorn!


Of course I argue, I'm female, Scorpio and Jewish why wouldn't I argue lol. Seriously though the Jewish thing about arguing is true, we must examine everything, an unexamined life is not a life. It's not that KPM disagrees with my point that is mildly annoying, it's that he doesn't know what it is, he's mixed it up with Flying Cranes argument. My premise is quite simple ... you cannot learn martial arts (along with a lot of other things) from scratch from a video and that's it, a complete beginner cannot be expected to pick up a physical activity and perform it to a competent standard ( a safe one too) without someone to correct them in the beginning. To try to teach yourself then find an instructor is the wrong way round, find a teacher which incidentally is a saying from the Sayings of the Jewish Fathers a book of wisdom.

I think instructionals can help if you're actively training the art with a competent teacher but I struggle with the idea that you can learn solely from DVDs etc.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think instructionals can help if you're actively training the art with a competent teacher but I struggle with the idea that you can learn solely from DVDs etc.

Sure, and just to be fair, KPM has clarified that he also does not advocate instruction purely thru video, without a teacher. His early statements did make the claim (tho he claims not), but he has come back and said no, he did not mean that.

Ok, I've got no problem with that, it's fair game.

The point that I am in disagreement with is that he feels it is appropriate to begin learning thru video to get a head start, before starting with a teacher. And it sounded like a random sort of arrangement, whatever videos were convenient and without having any solid plans to begin with a teacher. I believe he presented it as a way to try out the system before deciding to make travel commitments to see a teacher.

I MIGHT be able to get on board with the idea of an arrangement with a teacher who provides video material for a new student to get acquainted with, in the context of a solid agreement to begin attending class in a couple weeks or something. Ok, I could see that as a possibility. But not as a simple exploration to try and get a grounding in a system first, and someday maybe find the time to track down a teacher.

No, I can't support that notion at all.

So there it is.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Hmmmmm...maybe I should test this theory. I have been looking for a new art to learn and haven't had to much luck locally.

Tried the Doshinkan, but when I asked about overall starting cost, I never recieved a response. Emailed him again and no response.

I have the time and the room at home.

 

[SaulGoodman]

I once met a guy who was teaching a wing chun class and wore a black sash. I just watched and thought 'hmmmm this guy isn't very good". The students seemed to love him and I later found out that he was a "video black sash". At that point if he'd come to me as a student I would have had to take him back to ground zero and start all over, I don't think he would have liked it. After a few months his class (and him) dissapeared, a good thing imo

 

[Flying Crane]

Hmmmmm...maybe I should test this theory. I have been looking for a new art to learn and haven't had to much luck locally.

Tried the Doshinkan, but when I asked about overall starting cost, I never recieved a response. Emailed him again and no response.

I have the time and the room at home.

I asked for your thoughts on a previous post. Have you had a chance to review that?

 

[Flying Crane]

Hmmmmm...maybe I should test this theory. I have been looking for a new art to learn and haven't had to much luck locally.

Tried the Doshinkan, but when I asked about overall starting cost, I never recieved a response. Emailed him again and no response.

I have the time and the room at home.

If there were an instructional video available of my system, Tibetan white crane, I would suggest you give it a try and I would love to meet up and see how you do. Alas, I am not aware of any.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

If there were an instructional video available of my system, Tibetan white crane, I would suggest you give it a try and I would love to meet up and see how you do. Alas, I am not aware of any.

Excellent idea, it would be a controlled experiment. I will research and see if any are available.

And in response to your first post...no I have not, is it in the Doshinkan thread?

 

[Flying Crane]

Please review my post, number 232, and tell me your thoughts on what KPM said in the section I quoted.

Thx

Here it is...
Honestly, it's kind of a moot point, as I've said, KPM has clarified his position so it doesn't really matter. But if you are interested.

 

[Flying Crane]

Excellent idea, it would be a controlled experiment. I will research and see if any are available.

And in response to your first post...no I have not, is it in the Doshinkan thread?

I am not aware of any instructional video, but if you find some, let me know.

It could be a good one given that it's kind of a rare system, doubtful you would be able to find an instructor of any level outside of a couple areas in the USA.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I am not aware of any instructional video, but if you find some, let me know.

It could be a good one given that it's kind of a rare system, doubtful you would be able to find an instructor of any level outside of a couple areas in the USA.

Just out of curiosity, what version of White Crane does Yang Jwing Ming Teach?

He has videos, but i beleive he is only teaching the Qigong bits by video,

 

[Deleted member 34973]

I am not aware of any instructional video, but if you find some, let me know.

It could be a good one given that it's kind of a rare system, doubtful you would be able to find an instructor of any level outside of a couple areas in the USA.

A question, are you aware of any in the Washington state area? There are a few vids I have found and an instructional for shaolin white crane (curious if its the same?) but you are right about instructional vids on Tibetan, there isn't much.

 

[KPM]

The point that I am in disagreement with is that he feels it is appropriate to begin learning thru video to get a head start, before starting with a teacher.

------

If there were an instructional video available of my system, Tibetan white crane, I would suggest you give it a try and I would love to meet up and see how you do. Alas, I am not aware of any.

??????????

 

[KPM]

Sure, and just to be fair, KPM has clarified that he also does not advocate instruction purely thru video, without a teacher. His early statements did make the claim (tho he claims not), but he has come back and said no, he did not mean that.

.

Once again, from the OP:

Granted, nothing beats hands on instruction! At some point the person learning from DVD will have to seek out an instructor for some quality training. But his or her feet should already be firmly on the path compared to someone with no previous exposure at all.

 

[Flying Crane]

Just out of curiosity, what version of White Crane does Yang Jwing Ming Teach?

He has videos, but i beleive he is only teaching the Qigong bits by video,

He is Fujian method, completely different. It's what people call southern shaolin crane, and is probably an ancestor of wing chun.

 

[Flying Crane]

Once again, from the OP:

Granted, nothing beats hands on instruction! At some point the person learning from DVD will have to seek out an instructor for some quality training. But his or her feet should already be firmly on the path compared to someone with no previous exposure at all.

I don't really care, but this isn't the part I was talking about. If you really want to know, review my post, #232 in this thread. I quote you there.

 

[Phobius]

Once again, from the OP:

Granted, nothing beats hands on instruction! At some point the person learning from DVD will have to seek out an instructor for some quality training. But his or her feet should already be firmly on the path compared to someone with no previous exposure at all.

I disagree on terms that there are so many beginners out there that can hurt their shoulders badly just trying to mimic a simple move such as bong Sau.

Damage their spine and get a bad sense of structure from doing SLT.

Hurt their hand trying a chain punch on a bag.

There are so many details obvious to an instructor that a video student knows nothing about.

Can it work? Yes. Should it be a general advice? No.

So in a public thread titled Can you learn from a video? For the sake of safety we should be stating a resounding No. Or take some blame if people get hurt.