Martial sacrilege (part 2)

[Dirty Dog]

You CAN learn certain aspects of Martial Arts from videos alone. But you can't learn the entirety of the art with just videos alone. Tai-chi is an exception because it doesn't involve fighting.

Yes, it does. Here's a suggestion. Despite your self-proclaimed brilliance, it's obvious that you haven't a clue what you're talking about. Get one.

 

[oftheherd1]

Trained tai chi for approx 3 1/2 years which isn't a long period for truly learning it. Thankfully I have had a lot of other training prior so learning the gross aspects of the form wasn't very difficult but the fine tuning was far more difficult than any other art I have trained. I didn't continue because the instructor moved away and I haven't had the opportunity to find another instructor who knows more about tai chi than just doing the form. Oh and we did quite a bit of fighting with it not just form or push hands. He had us actually fight with it. Has helped every aspect of my abilities to engage with someone.

I once watched a Tai Chi demonstration by a practitioner who very definitely trained to fight. The power he had in his form was a pleasure to watch.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Ah, I see.

You can learn certain techniques from videos. Yes. I can do a good chokozuki and a good roundhouse kick because of youtube alone.

I doubt it. Especially since you whined about how much it hurts your leg when you throw a roundhouse.
You may THINK you can, simply because you don't actually know what a good roundhouse is.
Post video of yourself throwing a good roundhouse. I'm sure people here who actually DO know what a good roundhouse is will let you know...

 

[skribs]

Who told you they are good? Was that your own assessment?

If you read his other threads, you will learn that his assessment is the only assessment that matters.

 

[Flying Crane]

If you read his other threads, you will learn that his assessment is the only assessment that matters.

Oh I’ve picked up on that detail. I guess I was hoping to spark some introspection on his part. Maybe I’ve been successful. Maybe I haven’t.

 

[Headhunter]

Instructors make DVDs as reference for students but if non martial artists want to buy them then the instructor won't turn down some extra cash

 

[shihansmurf]

I think DVDs, videos, books, etc are a great way to learn new material within a broad skill set that you're already proficient in. I don't think they are a good way to train from the ground up. For example, I'm (glacially) slowly working my way through the IKCA kenpo video course. As I have a black belt in American Kenpo and the IKCA is effectively an off shoot, I have been able to learn the material realatively well. A few years ago, I bought a video on Unsu, and as I've trained Shotokan for 34 years, I learned the kata rather well. Abernathey's books and videos on bunkai have been a great resource for me and I've learned a great deal from their interpretations.

I would never attempt to learn a grappling art or a weapon art that I have no experience in. I don't have the requisite skill and knowledge to meaningfully learn from them. I wouldn't, aside from my body of knowledge on the martial arts in general, have a clue as to the quality of the material.

The issue is that non-personal instruction can help sharpen an existing skill set, I don't believe that it can meaningfully ingrain one.

Just my view,
Mark

 

[skribs]

Instructors make DVDs as reference for students but if non martial artists want to buy them then the instructor won't turn down some extra cash

I could see it the other way. Why sell someone a $20 DVD when they can sign up and take your classes for $100 a month (or whatever the prices are in your area). Yes, it's $20 for no additional effort, but it's a lot less money than you can earn by training them.

 

[jobo]

I could see it the other way. Why sell someone a $20 DVD when they can sign up and take your classes for $100 a month (or whatever the prices are in your area). Yes, it's $20 for no additional effort, but it's a lot less money than you can earn by training them.

distance selling, you can only train those in a small catchment area, you can sell DVDs the world over

 

[JR 137]

My former organization’s head guy made VHS tapes (showing my age a bit here; at least it wasn’t Beta) of the standardized stuff in our syllabus. I liked it. It was reference material, and it was only about $20 for 2 belt ranks’ worth of stuff. Everything was all fine and good.

Then a weird thing started to happen slowly. People who just promoted showed up to the first class of their next rank knowing the material. It wasn’t pretty by any stretch, but they had the kata memorized. Odd, since they just promoted last night and a teacher didn’t have the chance to teach them anything.

Then an even funnier thing happened. A guy was doing a kata during a test, the head guy corrected him, and the idiot said he was wrong because that wasn’t what the guy in the video said. The head guy just looked at him and said “did you happen to notice who the guy in the video was?” while shaking his head and walking away in utter disgust.

The videos were promptly pulled off the shelves, never to be seen again. While they were around, the label said in bold letters “FOR REFERENCE ONLY, NOT FOR TEACHING PURPOSES” He said it twice in the intro to the video, and twice at the end. In fact, they were his almost last words, followed only by “Thank you. Osu!”

 

[drop bear]

My former organization’s head guy made VHS tapes (showing my age a bit here; at least it wasn’t Beta) of the standardized stuff in our syllabus. I liked it. It was reference material, and it was only about $20 for 2 belt ranks’ worth of stuff. Everything was all fine and good.

Then a weird thing started to happen slowly. People who just promoted showed up to the first class of their next rank knowing the material. It wasn’t pretty by any stretch, but they had the kata memorized. Odd, since they just promoted last night and a teacher didn’t have the chance to teach them anything.

Then an even funnier thing happened. A guy was doing a kata during a test, the head guy corrected him, and the idiot said he was wrong because that wasn’t what the guy in the video said. The head guy just looked at him and said “did you happen to notice who the guy in the video was?” while shaking his head and walking away in utter disgust.

The videos were promptly pulled off the shelves, never to be seen again. While they were around, the label said in bold letters “FOR REFERENCE ONLY, NOT FOR TEACHING PURPOSES” He said it twice in the intro to the video, and twice at the end. In fact, they were his almost last words, followed only by “Thank you. Osu!”

Yeah. But was it different in the video?

Otherwise head guy should really be apologizing for sending out mixed instruction.

 

[JR 137]

Yeah. But was it different in the video?

Otherwise head guy should really be apologizing for sending out mixed instruction.

Nope.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Instructors make DVDs as reference for students but if non martial artists want to buy them then the instructor won't turn down some extra cash

Agreed. And I don't think they should turn it down. I don't think it's the distributor's job to assess each person's ability to use the product. If I buy a DVD (and am not a direct student), how can they possibly know whether it will be useful to me, without an extensive interview (and even that won't be conclusive).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah. But was it different in the video?

Otherwise head guy should really be apologizing for sending out mixed instruction.

Even if it had been different, I wouldn't see a problem with it, so long as the difference was purposeful (for instance, if he found a better way to do something, and now taught it differently than was in the video). Since the video wasn't intended to be a student's initial exposure, it being a bit different shouldn't be a big deal if the instructor warns them of the differences when teaching it the first time in class.

 

[JR 137]

Yeah. But was it different in the video?

Otherwise head guy should really be apologizing for sending out mixed instruction.

I meant to write this too in my initial post you quoted, but ran out of time...

Even if it was different in the video, do you tell the guy who’s testing you, who happens to be the head honcho AND the guy in the video, that’s he’s wrong and you’re right? A little common sense goes a long way. He should have made the correction the tester was telling him to make, and ask about the video later on. But no; he told the guy he was wrong because that’s not what the video showed.

First mistake was telling the guy testing him he was wrong. Second mistake was that he (the student) was in fact wrong about the tester being wrong.

 

[Anarax]

It is widely believed that you can’t learn martial arts from a book or DVD. This doesn’t stop teachers, some well-known, from producing books and DVDs year in year out in order to study their style.

Also with the invention of Youtube there are all manner of instructional video clips available these days.

So, is there a way or a time that you can study from video or books? How much back ground knowledge do you need?

How much can one learn from a DVD?

Is there a difference between seeing someone perform a technique in a sparring match/fight and you watching then practicing to watching an instructional video?

What form would you like instructional videos to take?

It essentially comes down to the experience of the learner. For example; I study Kali and know weapon disarms. I practiced them and have learned they are applied using leverage and angles. Can I learn new disarms, variations and other Kali techniques from videos? Yes. However; I already have experience with such techniques thus I can learn from "non-contact" sources. Would I be able to learn and apply techniques that I'm completely unfamiliar from videos? Probably not.

Basically, I see videos as supplemental training, not foundational.