Learning from DVD's

[Kung Fu Wang]

The online class is better than learn from DVD yourself.

- If your teacher sends his video.
- You study it.
- You send your own video back to your teacher.
- Your teacher makes comments on it through E-mail.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The online class is better than learn from DVD yourself.

- If your teacher sends his video.
- You study it.
- You send your own video back to your teacher.
- Your teacher makes comments on it through E-mail.

Better is relative. Better crap is still crap.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Better is relative. Better crap is still crap.

A quote from Richard Bowe (known in the NGAA as a "Bowe-ism"): "That's better. Don't get excited - I didn't say it was good."

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Better is relative. Better crap is still crap.

Someone who has desire to learn MA from online course is still "better" that those who doesn't want to do anything and just wants to be a couch potato.

When I was in school, I took the course "Logic Design Of Digital Systems" all by self-study without any teacher. Every week, after I had studied one chapter, I went to school to take one examine. If I passed that examine, I then spent next week, studied next chapter, and took another examine. I got "A" score at the end of that semester.

I don't think to self-learn MA is more difficult than to self-learn circuit design.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Someone who has desire to learn MA from online course is still "better" that those who doesn't want to do anything and just wants to be a couch potato.

When I was in school, I took the course "Logic Design Of Digital Systems" all by self-study without any teacher. Every week, after I had studied one chapter, I went to school to take one examine. If I passed that examine, I then spent next week, studied next chapter, and took another examine. I got "A" score at the end of that semester.

I don't think to self-learn MA is more difficult than to self-learn circuit design.

I disagree. With circuit design, you don't have to evaluate your own movement. I've learned programming, how to use programs, SQL, and other technical things by self-study (sometimes just with text). If I had learned my front kick by myself, I'd likely have developed bad form that might have robbed power, might have cost speed, and might even have put my hip or knee at risk of injury in trying to develop power and speed improperly.

That's not to say it can't be done. As someone pointed out, there used to be a lot more "self taught" MA. Someone had to start it. So it's possible, but harder and more problematic than a technical topic.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Someone who has desire to learn MA from online course is still "better" that those who doesn't want to do anything and just wants to be a couch potato.

When I was in school, I took the course "Logic Design Of Digital Systems" all by self-study without any teacher. Every week, after I had studied one chapter, I went to school to take one examine. If I passed that examine, I then spent next week, studied next chapter, and took another examine. I got "A" score at the end of that semester.

I don't think to self-learn MA is more difficult than to self-learn circuit design.

Yes, it is. You can teach yourself to build a bicycle without ever having seen one in person. You can't teach yourself to ride one without riding one.

 

[geezer]

Better is relative. Better crap is still crap.

...unless you're dyslexic. Then it might be a fish.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Better is relative. Better crap is still crap.

being that I've had to clean up crap from animals and from babies. I'm going to say that better crap is still preferable to horrible crap lol. .
This guy probably wished he had the better crap, you know that solid log that doesn't spread lol.

 

[Flying Crane]

I disagree. With circuit design, you don't have to evaluate your own movement. I've learned programming, how to use programs, SQL, and other technical things by self-study (sometimes just with text). If I had learned my front kick by myself, I'd likely have developed bad form that might have robbed power, might have cost speed, and might even have put my hip or knee at risk of injury in trying to develop power and speed improperly.

That's not to say it can't be done. As someone pointed out, there used to be a lot more "self taught" MA. Someone had to start it. So it's possible, but harder and more problematic than a technical topic.

Yes, someone had to start it, and it was probably many such someones way back in pre-history, experimenting with what they discovered through personal experience. This probably began prior to the evolution of the modern Homo sapiens.

And I would be willing to bet that their methods were very simple for many many many generations.

By comparison, the martial arts of today, which I mean to include anything from the past few thousand years, are very likely far more sophisticated. It became sophisticated gradually, over generations, through direct trial and error, which probably meant failure and injury and death.

Nobody just started doing this stuff, without building upon what came before. The chances of someone teaching themselves to some level that is remotely comparable to what is in today’s martial arts is essentially nil, especially without generations worth of that trial and error and death process that came before.

Personally, I do not accept the argument that someone can be essentially self-taught because back in some lost history someone started to figure out how to fight.

 

[mograph]

I don't think to self-learn MA is more difficult than to self-learn circuit design.

My God. So many things wrong with this assertion.

Just take one kick, for example. Its execution is so full of so many possible variations, based on the individual's body shape, ergonomic habits, degree of stiffness, proprioception, sense of balance, ability to comprehend, and perception of body in space that they cannot possibly be covered or corrected in a DVD.

Whereas, with circuit design, there are rules. Follow the rules, and the circuit works. IN THEORY. What about rusted wires? Hidden shorts? We should not compare circult design with martial arts, we should compare martial arts with becoming an electrical contractor, one who can install and troubleshoot under multiple circumstances based on first-hand knowledge gained from the experience of actually crawling up, down, drill into studs, recognizing dangerous connections, and more.

In fact, martial arts is more difficult, because it takes a great deal of experience to see the internal mechanics that a new or intermediate student cannot.

No. It is not like circuit design.

Trust me. I am a largely self-taught trumpet player, and I just took a lesson from a New York pro last year. I now realized that I had been playing nowhere near my potential on my own: if I had a lesson with Warren earlier on, I might have been able to turn pro. Much of what I know is self-taught, and one cannot learn martial arts (to any degree of skill) from DVDs with no feedback from a qualified instructor.

 

[Buka]

My God. So many things wrong with this assertion.

Just take one kick, for example. Its execution is so full of so many possible variations, based on the individual's body shape, ergonomic habits, degree of stiffness, proprioception, sense of balance, ability to comprehend, and perception of body in space that they cannot possibly be covered or corrected in a DVD.

Whereas, with circuit design, there are rules. Follow the rules, and the circuit works. IN THEORY. What about rusted wires? Hidden shorts? We should not compare circult design with martial arts, we should compare martial arts with becoming an electrical contractor, one who can install and troubleshoot under multiple circumstances based on first-hand knowledge gained from the experience of actually crawling up, down, drill into studs, recognizing dangerous connections, and more.

In fact, martial arts is more difficult, because it takes a great deal of experience to see the internal mechanics that a new or intermediate student cannot.

No. It is not like circuit design.

Trust me. I am a largely self-taught trumpet player, and I just took a lesson from a New York pro last year. I now realized that I had been playing nowhere near my potential on my own: if I had a lesson with Warren earlier on, I might have been able to turn pro. Much of what I know is self-taught, and one cannot learn martial arts (to any degree of skill) from DVDs with no feedback from a qualified instructor.

You're right, probably not from a blank canvass, no. But consider....say Warren trained you early on, and continued to do so throughout the years. You improved both through your experience and Warren's experience. Now you've been at it a decade and you're becoming really good.

Then, years later, he sends you a DVD he thinks you should enjoy and study. I betcha' you could learn from it. I betcha'.

 

[mograph]

You're right, probably not from a blank canvass, no. But consider....say Warren trained you early on, and continued to do so throughout the years. You improved both through your experience and Warren's experience. Now you've been at it a decade and you're becoming really good.

Then, years later, he sends you a DVD he thinks you should enjoy and study. I betcha' you could learn from it. I betcha'.

As with most discussions, we probably need to clarify premises and meanings, particularly the word learn, yes?

I don't believe that one could learn trumpet or martial arts from DVDs, if DVDs were the only source. To me, the statement "learn martial arts from DVDs" means that the DVDs are the only source and in this instance, to learn something means to have internalized it so that one can perform at an intermediate-to-high level.

However, as you have suggested, I do agree that one can sense, attend to, retain and be able to recall information from a DVD, and this aligns with the idea of learning circuit theory. In Warren's case, the information might be "compress your chops from the sides instead of the top and bottom." That would be good information. But after watching the DVD, did I learn to do that, or did I just sense, attend to, retain and be able to recall the information that I should compress my chops like that, and did I just attempt to compress my chops like that? Only Warren would be able to tell if I actually learned to do that to a level where I can achieve the goal: to produce a good, strong tone over the range of my instrument. To do that, Warren would have to be present to evaluate my progress.

However (2), I am willing to concede that if I had Warren's skill at judging tone, I might be able to evaluate myself and determine if I am actually achieving the goal. Now that would be the moderator of the effect of the DVD: the ability to self-evaluate.

Yes?

 

[Buka]

The way I look at it is like this - DVDs are film, as an example - like the use of studying film for professional sports. I'm not talking about sports Martial Arts, just sports in general. There's a bootload of film study by the athletes and coaches. A rookie isn't going to get the same benefits as a seasoned, intelligent veteran. At least not at the beginning.

I'm not about to learn how to play a new sport from watching film. I might learn the rules, the general flow of the game etc, but that's about it. But if it has anything at all to do with punching, kicking and training, I can learn a lot, be it new, or something I'm experienced in. I've been studying film since 1979. Bought a movie camera and first filmed a boxing match on TV. It was Ray Leonard vs Andy Price. We would watch that film, which was in three minute reels, on a home movie screen, both at regular speed and in slow motion. Watched it, and many others, over and over again, after classes as we stretched out and relaxed. Picked up some good things, and it was fascinating.

Years later, I trained with Ray at my buddy's gym in L.A. When we first met I complimented him on one of the nicest combinations I had ever seen, which was the one he finished Price with, as I absent-mindedly threw it slowly while we talked. He said, Man, how do you know that? Then I recounted the story. I've been studying film ever since. When one of you guys post a youtube vid of boxing, karate, whatever, you know how many times I watch those damn things? Probably too many.

You mentioned,
That would be good information. But after watching the DVD, did I learn to do that, or did I just sense, attend to, retain and be able to recall the information that I should compress my chops like that, and did I just attempt to compress my chops like that?

When studying film, about a subject you are experienced in, whatever new information you gain, still has to be practiced. And practiced to the degree that is already ingrained in you, which should be like a madman. Even if you're just able to recall the information, that's a good start. You just work it going forward.

As a guy who's watched film for a long time, to me, Youtube and DVDs must have come straight from God.