Buddhist theory of ninja origin

[Don Roley]

I never started cutting and pasting until the information I typed was asked for proof. So I found the Proof and cut and pasted the same information that has been avalable on my web site for years. That it was cut and pasted from several sites that said the same thing was what was needed to let some people know.. I was not making it up. This is what I learned and as I say History is different from different points of view.

The problem with the above is that there are sites on the internet that will possibly say anything you want them to. So unless you really know the subject matter it really is difficult to tell the good stuff from the bad.

And someone like you with no experience training in ninjutsu just can't tell which is good and which is bad.

Again, if you put aside your need for status in other people's eyes we may be able to help you. But if you feel so threatenend by the idea that you may not be correct that you lash out and do things like trying to say I am lying about living in Japan- you really can't expect people to do anything other than laugh at you like they have.

Despite the rudeness you have shown me I am still here to help those with less expereince than me like yourself reach a level of competence in the subject matter. But I can only help you if you let go of your ego and start with a fresh, open mind.

 

[47MartialMan]

a.) The problem with the above is that there are sites on the internet that will possibly say anything you want them to. So unless you really know the subject matter it really is difficult to tell the good stuff from the bad.

B.) And someone like you with no experience training in ninjutsu just can't tell which is good and which is bad.

C.) Again, if you put aside your need for status in other people's eyes we may be able to help you. But if you feel so threatenend by the idea that you may not be correct that you lash out and do things like trying to say I am lying about living in Japan- you really can't expect people to do anything other than laugh at you like they have.

D.) Despite the rudeness you have shown me I am still here to help those with less expereince than me like yourself reach a level of competence in the subject matter. But I can only help you if you let go of your ego and start with a fresh, open mind.

A.) Very true. The 'net is full of bad stuff as well as good.

B.) True again. The same goes for Bodhidharma, etc.,

C.) Nicley written. I dont think everyone on here is out to bash Mr Calkins..as a person/human. But such title/rank that cause descrepancies, along with inconsistancies, and cut/paste what other sites (those that may be bad), will create conflict and limit understanding, not to mention compasion.

D.) Again-nicely said. When the "eye cannot see itself, someone else has to be the mirror." However, the brain that governs the "eye", must logically set aside any false interpretations and understand what is being seen. This is somewhat like the occurance of a mirage.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

DON ROLEY IS BEING COMPASSIONATE!!!!:xtrmshock :xtrmshock
HAS HELL FROZEN!?!?!?

 

[clfsean]

DON ROLEY IS BEING COMPASSIONATE!!!!:xtrmshock :xtrmshock
HAS HELL FROZEN!?!?!?

Yes it did... last week. Didn't you get the memo?? :flame:

 

[clfsean]

The cut off arm you speak of is a legend about Bodhidharma's pupil, Hui Ko, whom cut off his arm to show dedication/loyalty. thus thus legend has been past from geberation to geberation.

Generations...

Didn't I already cover this topic once here???

If you want to know more about Buddihism, study/research on Buddhism. I was fortunate to have a college professor whose subject/courses were on Eastern Religion. His speciality was Buddhism. He did travel to India and Asia.
He had also made it possible for me to meet and speak with Buddhist Monks.

Thus, data from those sources had made me re-think, both angles, on current "Shaolin Monks/Kung Fu as being "real or authentic"

When was this? When did he speak to Chan Monks in China? Chan is a specific branch of Buddhism found in China & adopted to fit their needs in Japan.

 

[47MartialMan]

When was this? When did he speak to Chan Monks in China? Chan is a specific branch of Buddhism found in China & adopted to fit their needs in Japan.

Did I say Chan?

 

[Don Roley]

DON ROLEY IS BEING COMPASSIONATE!!!!:xtrmshock :xtrmshock
HAS HELL FROZEN!?!?!?

Well look at my posting history. If I think someone is a fraud and promoting a flawed history of their art for personal gain there is no mercy. But people like Mr Calkins who have no experience in ninjutsu and are merely echoing what they hear from flawed sources get more patience from me. Mr Calkins really does not know much about the martial arts. He can't help not having a lot of experience in the subject matter. I reserve my worst for those that have spent a lot of time knowingly spreading crap for their own gain.

There has been discussion about how Mr Calkins owes me a public apology for his unwarented attack. But it is hard to remain mad at him seeing at just how many people started laughing at him over the matter. People have called me to joke about how they thought they were calling Japan but I answeres anyway and other boards have threads all centered around just how foolish he looked with his actions. There are perhaps hundreds of people chuckling about him and making jokes at his expense. How can I do anything but feel a bit of pity towards him? He obviously does not bother to check his facts before he writes and feels the need to lash out at those that question him. That is more a subject of pity than anger.

If I launched right back at him he would entrench deeper into his bunker and never be open to what people like you and I could teach him. Where would be the value in that? We have a duty to teach those with much less experience than us in the martial arts to take the steps that may lead to their eventual competence in the martial arts. If he is so deep in his bunker because I responded with the same venom and hate that he sent my way, how could he ever build up enough courage to admit he was wrong and offer an apology and start to change his ways?

As a moderator here I am not interested in "owning" anyone else. I am interested in helping those that lack knowledege and expereince in the martial arts like Mr Calkins to better themselves.

 

[47MartialMan]

Well look at my posting history. If I think someone is a fraud and promoting a flawed history of their art for personal gain there is no mercy. But people like Mr Calkins who have no experience in ninjutsu and are merely echoing what they hear from flawed sources get more patience from me. Mr Calkins really does not know much about the martial arts. He can't help not having a lot of experience in the subject matter. I reserve my worst for those that have spent a lot of time knowingly spreading crap for their own gain.

There has been discussion about how Mr Calkins owes me a public apology for his unwarented attack. But it is hard to remain mad at him seeing at just how many people started laughing at him over the matter. People have called me to joke about how they thought they were calling Japan but I answeres anyway and other boards have threads all centered around just how foolish he looked with his actions. There are perhaps hundreds of people chuckling about him and making jokes at his expense. How can I do anything but feel a bit of pity towards him? He obviously does not bother to check his facts before he writes and feels the need to lash out at those that question him. That is more a subject of pity than anger.

If I launched right back at him he would entrench deeper into his bunker and never be open to what people like you and I could teach him. Where would be the value in that? We have a duty to teach those with much less experience than us in the martial arts to take the steps that may lead to their eventual competence in the martial arts. If he is so deep in his bunker because I responded with the same venom and hate that he sent my way, how could he ever build up enough courage to admit he was wrong and offer an apology and start to change his ways?

As a moderator here I am not interested in "owning" anyone else. I am interested in helping those that lack knowledege and expereince in the martial arts like Mr Calkins to better themselves.

Nicely written,

I had personally emailed Mr Calkins. I told him, in short, that he ought to take great care and concern about his claims per in front of experience martial art peers.

I had suggested that he renounce or not lsy such claim in front of said peers.

If his students called him by a title, or believe, like he does, that he his deserving of it or a particular rank, then there is nothing that other experience martial artists can do.

This reminds me of a battle between a atheism/theology, pro life/pro choice, etc.,

Also, I had seen two Church denominations slander and put down the others claims.

It comes down to beliefs, half-truths, or plain lies.

Since we can't educate Mr Calkins' students, perhaps we can educate him. He may start to change.

Hopefully, he will learn and not mis-use what we try to do.

 

[Don Roley]

Since we can't educate Mr Calkins' students, perhaps we can educate him. He may start to change.

Hopefully, he will learn and not mis-use what we try to do.

And that would be a great use of the internet.

Mr Calkins has not achieved any great level of competence by what we can see. Despite that, there are many, many people on martialtalk willing to lift him out of his ignorance. But to do that, he must abandon his ego and desire to appear knowledgeable in front of others. Only then can he begin to learn.

After all the time he has wasted, only to remain so unskilled, it would be nice if we all could help him to become worthy of what his students expect.

 

[47MartialMan]

A.) Mr Calkins has not achieved any great level of competence by what we can see.

B.) Despite that, there are many, many people on martialtalk willing to lift him out of his ignorance. But to do that, he must abandon his ego and desire to appear knowledgeable in front of others. Only then can he begin to learn.

C.) After all the time he has wasted, only to remain so unskilled, it would be nice if we all could help him to become worthy of what his students expect.

A.) Nicely written. He may have a level of skill, but "martial maturity" is questionable.

B.) This was my analogy of it;
the "eye cannot see itself, someone else has to be the mirror." However, the brain that governs the "eye", must logically set aside any false interpretations and understand what is being seen. This is somewhat like the occurance of a mirage.

C.) Yes, it is covered in both of our "B". However, people who have a ego or mind-set, may never be changed. They are so trapped or affixed to what they understand, that in their mind, it is their beliefs. Their "realities".

This brings me to further explain;
Hopefully, he will learn and not mis-use what we try to do.

If he is a con-man, he will realize that what he projected has been uncovered. That said, he could use this info to correct some "mistakes" that he had. Using said information to "cover tracks", sort to speak.

If he is a "true" martial artist, he will come to understand his error(s), and strive to correct them.

 

[clfsean]

Did I say Chan?

Nope... but in the prior postings about this topic, the Buddhists in conversation were Da Mo & Hui ko... the founder of Chan & the first disciple. Why talk any other version when we are discussing a specific set of individuals & a specific legend of a specific group??

 

[47MartialMan]

Nope... but in the prior postings about this topic, the Buddhists in conversation were Da Mo & Hui ko... the founder of Chan & the first disciple. Why talk any other version when we are discussing a specific set of individuals & a specific legend of a specific group??

I see. But I was only using additional info from memory in accordance with that partuclar portion of the post. Not the post entirely. To be included with any or all other Buddhist posting in said same post.

Talk about others because they all point to one common origin.

 

[The Kai]

Wasnt That great.. I have never been to great a Point fighter. I have worked on it.. But I didn't like the Politics in Point fighting. So I stopped going. I did a bit with different Schools I was with.. Didn't like it much and like I said.. I was never the top one in our schools. I did my best and took a few 2nd & 3rd... But that was it

I completely understand that point fighting might not be your fort'e. With Iron body training and the ability to apply crushing weight to you forearms, you would be a natural for Kyokushin Kai tournaments (Bare Knuckle full contact) have you ever tried this?
What was your record

 

[47MartialMan]

A.) bruce, i think the problem is that you came here with all of these expectations that people would respect you for the title, and just say, "thanks for your info".

B.) as soon a people started to question your credentials you felt as if your back was up against the wall, and instead of trying to learn something new, now you will stick even harder to the stories you tell.

C.) one of the qualities of a great teacher is the ability to keep on learning, and say "i didnt know that, thank you for sharing"
no one person is perfect, or has all the knowledge on a particular course of study.

D.) ive learned lots of things over the course of my life that i have found out not to be true. and while it takes some getting used to accepting new theories or the real facts, you adapt.......that is learning.
to sit back and not accept something while the evidence stares you down indicates a refusal to invite new ideas or new knowledge.......struggle is the law of growth.

E.) you'r struggling right now to gain acceptance by a group of your peers. denial of this would only further strengthen my argument.
why else would one come back time and again with information, whether it be right or wrong.

A.) It is hard, on such a forum like this, with many knowledgable people, to make any attempt to "show off". However, perhaps this was not purposely done.

B.) Yes, the natural defense/response for someone getting pressured. However, if he is "sticking" to stories, it is because of his belief or mind-set. thus, once such is rooted, it is hard to change.

C.) How true. That is where this forum is useful.

D.) True agian. I had mentioned to him in many ways to "adjust".

E.) Perhaps, according to him, his peers are the people around him and others that believe, think, and have the same mind-set as he. Therefore, he may not be able to change-as I had mentioned.

It was a very constructive and polite post BlackCatBonz..:asian::asian::asian::asian::asian:

 

[47MartialMan]

A.) If you would merely try to put aside your need for status for a short while, maybe we could help you to understand the subject matter. But if you refuse to do so, as well as believe that a site that links to one in Japan somehow constitutes it being an official organ for Hatsumi, there is little we can do for you.

B.) You need not defend yourself, but you do need to back up what you write with proof. And accusing me of BS is not a very productive way of debating. Please, put aside your attitude and try to interact with us with the proper respect.

A.) How true.

B.) Agreed. I had said that he has to maintain. Perhaps he is losing proper respect for some here that he feels, when threatened, they do not give him. However, what he also must realize, that when people question and comment on certain issues by him, there will be certain post towards these. And that certain post from others, is not out of respect, but trying to understand and help. Those that flat out call him liar, BSer, or the like, start the dis-respect and tension. Those that do not call him this, should not receive such.

If you had not made the first sign of dis-respect, Don, then Mr Calkins owes you a apology, IMHO.

 

[Don Roley]

If you had not made the first sign of dis-respect, Don, then Mr Calkins owes you a apology, IMHO.

Many people have said that to me. But I think they miss the point of how much of an insult Mr Calkins made to the owner of this site. I can shrug off mean- spirited attacks like his very easily. But it is less easy to see insults being sent other's way.

If I were indeed lying about where I was posting from, then that would either mean that Kaith is either a willing participent in this fraud or was too dumb to do a simple ISP check on one of the people he put in a position of authority.

 

[BruceCalkins]

Many people have said that to me. But I think they miss the point of how much of an insult Mr Calkins made to the owner of this site. I can shrug off mean- spirited attacks like his very easily. But it is less easy to see insults being sent other's way.

If I were indeed lying about where I was posting from, then that would either mean that Kaith is either a willing participent in this fraud or was too dumb to do a simple ISP check on one of the people he put in a position of authority.

I have never made an insult to the owner of this site. I have invited him to my School as a Guest Instructor and Also look forward to getting to meet him in July... You were the one being rude and you are the one that posted the statement... I know that the pepole of this site have a hard enough time keeping track of what they need to Maybe that would believe some one that filled out the information files that they were from Japan... I don't know how their software works and if this would show up or not. I will and have never say any bad things about the owner of this site. He has my complete and unswerving Respect.

 

[Don Roley]

I have never made an insult to the owner of this site. I have invited him to my School as a Guest Instructor and Also look forward to getting to meet him in July... You were the one being rude and you are the one that posted the statement... I know that the pepole of this site have a hard enough time keeping track of what they need to Maybe that would believe some one that filled out the information files that they were from Japan... I don't know how their software works and if this would show up or not. I will and have never say any bad things about the owner of this site. He has my complete and unswerving Respect.

Mr Calkins,
Are you trying to deny that what you wrote about me, accusing me of lying about posting from Japan, was rude? You are saying that I was rude?

Take a look at all the responses so far. No one other than you seems to think that what you wrote was appropriate. I think you need to consider your actions a bit more. And you should consider just how much Bob Hubbard depends on the moderators here and how easy it would be for him to check that I post from Japan.

 

[Flatlander]

Don Roley is in Japan. That's not up for discussion. Please cease with the ungrounded accusations, it's not a great way to make a point.

 

[Don Roley]

Don Roley is in Japan. That's not up for discussion. Please cease with the ungrounded accusations, it's not a great way to make a point.

I think at this point, Mr Calkins understands that I live in Japan. The problem seems to be that he complains about how people are talking about him lying about his past training history and saying that they are rude attacks on him. But when he accused me of lying about living in Japan, he feels that it is not a rude attack.