Klondike93
Master Black Belt
I've just relized that you must be the person that Seig wrote about going to a TKD black belt test with and was really disapointed with the whole thing.
:asian:
:asian:
Chronuss
Senior Master
yessir, I am. there were just so many irregular protocols that they were doing that churned my stomach. in this TKD org. that shall remain nameless (simply because I don't wanna make fun of them) they have their names embroidered onto the belt on one side and the org on the other and Korean corresponding and so forth. well, they'd take the one length of belt that had their name on it (look straight down with belt tied and should be the right side on the knot) and they'd tuck back under the layers of belt so people could clearly read their name...to me, this is pure vanity. it matters not if your name is on a belt. and they stomped on this plywood floor like if they were the loudest one they'd get a friggin' medal. I was quite perturbed. all of'em in these crisp white gi's...I just wanted to take chocolate syrup and squeeze the bottle...I just feel so much more comfy in a black gi...it's the Dark side coming out in me. hehe.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Well, about all's I can say is that the issue never came up. To begin with, I always assumed that my instructors, in kenpo and in grad school, simply knew a hell of a lot more than I did and it would be best for me to shut up and try to learn.
Fortunately, I was lucky in my teachers--Toni, Scott Higgins, Larry Tatum especially (with Clyde's painful kibitzing superadded!)--so I never had to get into a big snit about whether or not they deserved my respect. It seemed pretty clear then, and pretty clear now, that they did.
It occurs to me that one of the issues, here, is what Freudians call transference. All teaching depends upon pretty primitive identifications of students and teachers, which is why the teacher/student relationship is so open to abuse. It's also why we students even think in these terms to begin with...
But I cannot imagine taking lessons from someone I utterly disrespected. Fortunately, I've never had to worry about it.
As for the question about what rank means, let me tell ya a little Clyde story. I'm in class one Saturday morning, and the beast is teaching. After about 45 minutes, it calls me (green belt. or 3rd brown) up, Cliff (black belt), and I think William (ditto). And it starts demanding forms. We get through Long 3, which I was still pretty wobbly with, not to mention I hate performing. And we do this damn form stopping, backing up, restarting, repeating steps, by the numbers...which I survive. More or less.
Then Clyde looks at the class and says," You know why they can do that? because it's the responsibility of their rank."
I don't know why, but it's still what I think of when such questions come up.
Fortunately, I was lucky in my teachers--Toni, Scott Higgins, Larry Tatum especially (with Clyde's painful kibitzing superadded!)--so I never had to get into a big snit about whether or not they deserved my respect. It seemed pretty clear then, and pretty clear now, that they did.
It occurs to me that one of the issues, here, is what Freudians call transference. All teaching depends upon pretty primitive identifications of students and teachers, which is why the teacher/student relationship is so open to abuse. It's also why we students even think in these terms to begin with...
But I cannot imagine taking lessons from someone I utterly disrespected. Fortunately, I've never had to worry about it.
As for the question about what rank means, let me tell ya a little Clyde story. I'm in class one Saturday morning, and the beast is teaching. After about 45 minutes, it calls me (green belt. or 3rd brown) up, Cliff (black belt), and I think William (ditto). And it starts demanding forms. We get through Long 3, which I was still pretty wobbly with, not to mention I hate performing. And we do this damn form stopping, backing up, restarting, repeating steps, by the numbers...which I survive. More or less.
Then Clyde looks at the class and says," You know why they can do that? because it's the responsibility of their rank."
I don't know why, but it's still what I think of when such questions come up.
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
I thought I heard the last of dimpled chads.......:rofl:
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
take away one rank.......
W
WilliamTLear
Guest
Uh... er... um...
DON'T KICK ME IN THE CHAD!!! :lol:
DON'T KICK ME IN THE CHAD!!! :lol:
T
Testdummy
Guest
Yes i would take in mind that if someone came in from another place and was a higher belt then me then i would respect that for the meer fact that hen/she is a higher belt and plus they may know more then you. As for the people in the same dojo yes. I think they earned that right to tell you what to do even tho you don't see it their way.:shrug:
T
tonbo
Guest
Hmmm......this requires a bit of thought.
Okay, answers:
1) Would I accept rank from someone I disagreed fundamentally with? I doubt it. If I disagreed fundamentally, I shouldn't be studying with that person. I trust my sensei, and I want him to trust me. If I am not honest with him, and him with me, then our relationship goes nowhere, and I am wasting my time. I have disagreements with my sensei from time to time, but they have always been relatively minor, and quickly resolved with little problem. I will accept rank from my sensei, my teacher, my mentor...all the same person. However, I will not accept rank from someone that I don't trust or work well with. I will also not be seeking rank from someone that I haven't actually trained under. If I were somehow magically able to be granted rank from someone like Larry Tatum, Huk Planas, Dennis Conatser, etc., I would be happy to accept it, but I would treat it as an honorary rank (assuming it is a Dan rank--I would be happy to accept non-Black ranks from any of these men). Anyway, as with so much else, it all depends.
2) What does it mean to me to accept rank? It means that I am accepting the judgement of my instructor that I am ready to go to another level. It means that he is welcoming me to a new degree of training, and that he is expecting me to rise to the challenge. It means that the bar has been raised on my performance, both in class and out. It is a symbol of trust, and of belief. Yes, the belt is nice, but it is just a symbol. The sentiment *behind* the symbol is what is inspiring. It means to me that my relationship with my instructor, my school, and my fellow students has taken another step. In short, it is a beautiful thing; has been since the day I first strapped on my lovely new white belt...
Again.....Ah, the memories....
Peace--
Okay, answers:
1) Would I accept rank from someone I disagreed fundamentally with? I doubt it. If I disagreed fundamentally, I shouldn't be studying with that person. I trust my sensei, and I want him to trust me. If I am not honest with him, and him with me, then our relationship goes nowhere, and I am wasting my time. I have disagreements with my sensei from time to time, but they have always been relatively minor, and quickly resolved with little problem. I will accept rank from my sensei, my teacher, my mentor...all the same person. However, I will not accept rank from someone that I don't trust or work well with. I will also not be seeking rank from someone that I haven't actually trained under. If I were somehow magically able to be granted rank from someone like Larry Tatum, Huk Planas, Dennis Conatser, etc., I would be happy to accept it, but I would treat it as an honorary rank (assuming it is a Dan rank--I would be happy to accept non-Black ranks from any of these men). Anyway, as with so much else, it all depends.
2) What does it mean to me to accept rank? It means that I am accepting the judgement of my instructor that I am ready to go to another level. It means that he is welcoming me to a new degree of training, and that he is expecting me to rise to the challenge. It means that the bar has been raised on my performance, both in class and out. It is a symbol of trust, and of belief. Yes, the belt is nice, but it is just a symbol. The sentiment *behind* the symbol is what is inspiring. It means to me that my relationship with my instructor, my school, and my fellow students has taken another step. In short, it is a beautiful thing; has been since the day I first strapped on my lovely new white belt...
Again.....Ah, the memories....
Peace--
Chronuss
Senior Master
I had a somewhat difficult time accepting my black belt in TKD from a man that went from fifth dan to eighth dan in the course of three years, which was the time it took me to get to first. for about four months, I think I had worn it twice: when I got it at the test(damnable white gi) and when I got home that night(wanted to see what it looked like with the black gi). Seig and Tess keep drilling into me that I put in the time and that I earned it. to me, it just feels very strange to put it on, and I still have a hard time wearing it. Seig even said I was allowed to wear it in the dojo, but I refused. I am not a black belt in Kenpo and I still have a long way to go til I am, so I refuse to wear it after I enter that door.
I still have some issues from my first instructor as well. Usually when people ask me about my previous training, how high did you get questions? I just usually respond with I spent x amount of yrs. with him and he truly gave me a good foundation of fundamentals to learn the kenpo system. I personally feel that I have gained a lot of knowledge in kenpo but have a ton of material yet to learn or just better yet to understand. Another couple of pennies to add.
Jason Farnsworth
Jason Farnsworth
K
Kirk
Guest
Well now you got me curious, let's hear the whole story! :asian:
KenpoDave
2nd Black Belt
I would have to say no to #1, and ask, why would someone who I have fundamental differences with involving principles and standards be offering me rank?
To #2, it means a new mantle of responsibility. It means more credibility for my knowledge, and therefore requires more diligence on my part to do my best for my students.
Dave
OP
OP
ProfessorKenpo
Guest
You hit the nail on the head Dave, thanks for maintaining integrity. I've seen lots of folks lately taking rank from any ole Tom, Dick, and Harry out there that will hand it to them and it puzzles me how they can sleep at night knowing they didn't do anything to earn it. Worse yet, how do they explain to their students if they have any?
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
