High Rank and Multiple Arts

[tellner]

Danjo does have a point even if it was being made humorously.

If you can get the trainer to give you a certificate in a month because you've developed a "rapport" what good is it? It sounds like a pat on the back for a friend rather than something with any real meaning or worth. The connection with Kenpo ranks seems forced at best. Different skills take different amounts of time to acquire. The relationship between the level of competence and the piece of paper can be flexible.

 

[The Last Legionary]

It's a common issue. They have a 5th in something legit, a couple of 8ths and 9ths in some "related" systems then a 10th in their own "creation", usually a founder or if they really have an ego that needs stroking (and the small penis that needs compensation too) they hook up with some "head of family" rank exchange and get themselves a "Sokeship". Some don't. They just have page long lists of all these high ranks. 35 years old, 15 8th dans and higher. It's brown, it came out of the southern end of a northern bound bull, and smells quite bad.

Kenpo's no better. There's quite a few folks who got their promotion for simply switching organizations and bringing a few folks over with them. Move a small school, jump 2 grades, larger school 3-4. I'm not refering to some 28 yr old wet behind the ears folks either, but a few of the so called "seniors". Those who've been around long enough, you know who I'm talking about, so I'm not saying any names. People argue if kenpo is American, Hawaiian, Japanese or Chinese. I say, it's Southern. Y'all are cousins, and there's a butt load of inbreeding involved, and you know what happens when cousins get busy. Some of you will know the big eared weird looking guy I'm talking about, rest of you, just go back to the buffet, it's crab leg night after all, try not to get any on the GM. He's the fat guy with all the stripes on his belt. That's not rank, it's stretch marks.

What's my point, other than to insult a couple of hacks?
Simply this. Someone legit with real skill and talent, doesn't need reams of paper, a fancy title, or any such bull crap. You'll see them on the floor, training, teaching, and still learning. Forever a student. They have real humility, not the false front I've seen over the past decade, and heard about from so many others.

Those folks, the real artists, are a rare breed, and if you train with one of them, count your blessings and thank your God, and thank them, for sharing with you what they know and allowing you the chance to walk a ways with them in their and you journey.


Peace out homer.






IV

 

[The Last Legionary]

I got this repy dingy doo doo from some chicken crap wanna be but couldn't be had to buy his credits mail order because he is flail disorder on the mattys.
"accusations with NO verification, slander"
Someone failed their save vs clue check!

Accusation: a formal charge of wrongdoing brought against a person; the act of imputing blame or guilt

Verification: confirmation of the accuracy of data.

Slander: Slander is oral defamation, untrue words said aloud as opposed to written down.

So with the help of Mr. Webster and his fellow definers of language, I have clearly shown that my own defamer is in fact, an utter butt muncher.

Mr. Doctor, Soke, mind flayer, butt muncher, the word you were looking for, you incontinent ninny was "Libel", not "Slander".

For there to have been either slander or libel, I would have to have named a name.
I did not. Your teeny tiny microbial sized pee brain (yes I said pee brain, for he or she is a piss-ant my lord!) filled in a blank, probably your own due to a guilty conscience I'd expect and being incapable of accepting any opposing view that might dispute the narrow and self promoting nature of your own ego, was of course, offended.

For there to be verification, it would of course require that I name names and cite sources, thereby allowing said nincompoops to do what they do best. Scream and stamp and pout and call out their legal scrap suckers to send threats against me and this site and it's owner, something I read happens whenever some loser no real skill feltcher gets brought up and ripped the new bung hole and exposed as the scumwad they are. Sorry Analmouse butt my sense of propriety won't allow that.

For there to be a specific accusation, I would have to name names. Covered that, not my fault if this is too hard for you. Next time, I'll type slower for you. Should have gone to a real school and not gotten your degree and or black belt from UPS.

So, sorry bum burgler, butt you're obviously outclassed here, and probably one of the frauds with tons of paper and little actual skill I was refering to.

So please, and I say this will all honesty and total affection, being so full of holiday cheer as I am,:lfao::2xBird2::moon::btg::lol2:


This product is meant for educational purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. List each check separately by bank number. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Postage will be paid by addressee. Subject to CAB approval. This is not an offer to sell securities. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some viewers. Do not stamp. Use other side for additional listings. For recreational use only. Do not disturb. All models over 18 years of age. If condition persists, consult your physician.


IV

 

[tellner]

LL, You make a number of good points here. But your choice of words is going to run afoul of the moderators.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Very true. But cowards annoy me, and fraudulant cowards more so. It's gotten me in trouble before. Time for me to start drinking and sober up. :lol:


IV

 

[John Bishop]

OK. That was entertaining.
I'm assuming that you (Last Legionary) received a email or PM strongly disagreeing with one of your posts. If that is the case, lets keep it in the PM's or emails. If it spills out here into the open forum, then we'll be forced to shut down this interesting discussion.

 

[The Last Legionary]

It was an unsigned negative reputation remark received for post#177.
Sorry for the sidetrack.


IV

 

[John Bishop]

It was an unsigned negative reputation remark received for post#177.
Sorry for the sidetrack.


IV

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[Rob Broad]

After reading through this entire thread, I will say that I love what KenpoJoe does. The few times I have chatted with him online he shared emmensely. His YouTube clips are phenominal. And if I ever get a second batch of Kenpo Whores shoulder rockers made, be wll be get one, becase he is the original Kenpo Whore, willing to learn from anyone who as the knowledge he wants to possess.

We have all seen the Uber belts and there are a lot more of those flakes than legit guys out there. And with those guys who hand rank to each other through th eold boys club, or create several styles of their own to hand out to their buddies, I have just one question "How much snake oil does it take to grease the wheels?"

 

[MJS]

I'd like to say a few things. First off, speaking as a member, not a mod because I'm involved in this thread, but I'd like to ask all that are participating in this thread, to please do your best to keep things cool. This is a big thread, and I'd hate to see it closed because someone can't control their words.

As for the thread in itself. There seems to be a few misconceptions. First, this thread is not about one particular person. KenpoJoe was brought into it, but I, as well as any else, can search the net and find many high rank people. I think alot of questions that are being asked, are also going unanswered, which IMHO, leads to more questions. Whats the big secret?

Second, this thread has nothing to do with skill. If we look at the thread title its high rank and multiple arts. I see nothing talking about skill in that title. That being said, people have asked why I think its wrong to get more skill. Nothing is wrong with that. If I wasn't interested in more skill, I myself wouldn't be training in Arnis and BJJ, as well as going to seminars, working out with others from various arts, etc. I love to train and if I didn't, I would never have been training for this long. The difference lies in getting high rank with all of those arts. Being a 7th, 8th or 9th degree, as some have said, takes a loooooong time. So, it begs the question, and one that has not been answered...How is it possible? Is it possible, given the persons age and time that they have in the arts?

People seem to think that it makes their MA resume look good because they have X number of ranks and X degrees. Sorry, for me, thats not what I look at. Impress me with your skill, not the number of belts or your rank. Obviously I'm not the only one who is curious about this subject, judging by the replies that are also questioning things.

 

[MJS]

I'd also like to add, that there is nothing wrong with having more than one black belt. Next month I, and a few others that are in my Arnis group, will be testing for our black belts. Funny thing is, given the amount of time the 4 of us have in Arnis, one would think that we'd be 2nd or 3rd degrees, yet we're testing for black. Hmmm.

If I was a rank whore, I'd have tested a long time ago, but fact is, I dont care and neither do the other 3. Yet watch us on the mat. Watch us train. Watch us execute the material. Certainly impresses our teacher.

So as I said, its not the color or the stripes, its the skill. Its really simple math. Take a look at some high rank people. Look at the number of arts they do. Look at the rank they hold. Look at the time they've been training. Do things add up? If so, then no worries. If not..well, I don't think I need to say anything about that.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I'd like to say a few things. First off, speaking as a member, not a mod because I'm involved in this thread, but I'd like to ask all that are participating in this thread, to please do your best to keep things cool. This is a big thread, and I'd hate to see it closed because someone can't control their words.

As for the thread in itself. There seems to be a few misconceptions. First, this thread is not about one particular person. KenpoJoe was brought into it, but I, as well as any else, can search the net and find many high rank people. I think alot of questions that are being asked, are also going unanswered, which IMHO, leads to more questions. Whats the big secret?

Second, this thread has nothing to do with skill. If we look at the thread title its high rank and multiple arts. I see nothing talking about skill in that title. That being said, people have asked why I think its wrong to get more skill. Nothing is wrong with that. If I wasn't interested in more skill, I myself wouldn't be training in Arnis and BJJ, as well as going to seminars, working out with others from various arts, etc. I love to train and if I didn't, I would never have been training for this long. The difference lies in getting high rank with all of those arts. Being a 7th, 8th or 9th degree, as some have said, takes a loooooong time. So, it begs the question, and one that has not been answered...How is it possible? Is it possible, given the persons age and time that they have in the arts?

People seem to think that it makes their MA resume look good because they have X number of ranks and X degrees. Sorry, for me, thats not what I look at. Impress me with your skill, not the number of belts or your rank. Obviously I'm not the only one who is curious about this subject, judging by the replies that are also questioning things.

Absolutely great post Mike! It does come down to your skill and less about your rank. Your ability to protect yourself and your loved ones is also what is really important. In the end rank is just really not important!

Train and practice dillegently because in the moment the belt you have is meaningless!

 

[Brother John]

I'm curious as to what the obsession is to some people with high rank? Now, there is nothing wrong with having it, but I would think that there would or should be some sort of pre-requisite for it. I don't know...do people want it because they think it'll make others view them differently?

I do think that the desire for high rank is an Ego & Esteem thing.
I don't want "High" rank. I want to associate myself with martial artists of HIGH quality, skill, knowledge and experience. I don't judge those things by rank. You cannot equate those things to a number of years! You cannot judge those things based on whose student they are/were. I have to judge that based on first hand experience. I do think that their interaction with others is a fine resource for judging their 'quality' as far as character. If they can't conduct themselves as a mature, humble, honest and patient person.....even online.....I can't imagine them having much capacity for the level of cultivation required to develop those qualities I admire and look for in those I want to associate with.

So....as the old saying goes, don't TELL me who you are, SHOW me what you do....and THEN...I will KNOW you.
OR: As Christ said "By their fruits shall ye know them."
I don't see their belt or certs or titles as "Fruit"
just decorations.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

...as far as "Multiple arts"....

More power to ya!

I've got nothing against it whatsoever. But people need to think about what they do and why. Not all "Additions" really add to the mix. You can't take pieces from puzzle A and force them to fit well into puzzle B.

I'm all for what's commonly called "Cross-Training". I think the massive majority of the "old/traditional" masters did so!!!!! By and large, it's one of the paths to mastery as I see it.

But just like "rank"......just 'knowing' several different arts/systems doesn't mean that WHAT you know or how well you know it or how cohesive a "whole" it becomes........means squat.

Your Brother
John

 

[Danjo]

After reading through this entire thread, I will say that I love what KenpoJoe does. The few times I have chatted with him online he shared emmensely. His YouTube clips are phenominal. And if I ever get a second batch of Kenpo Whores shoulder rockers made, be wll be get one, becase he is the original Kenpo Whore, willing to learn from anyone who as the knowledge he wants to possess.

We have all seen the Uber belts and there are a lot more of those flakes than legit guys out there. And with those guys who hand rank to each other through th eold boys club, or create several styles of their own to hand out to their buddies, I have just one question "How much snake oil does it take to grease the wheels?"

If you don't want people to think you're a duck then quit quacking. If you don't want people to think you're a rank chaser, don't post a dozen high ranks on your website.

The comment that Kenpo Joe is a good martial artist or that you like what he does is beside the point entirely.

He was used by me as a case in point. The point of the thread wasn't about him per se, he just fit the bill of someone that had multiple high ranks in various arts and the question was asked "How is this legitimately possible?" It still hasn't been answered IMO.

 

[Grenadier]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Ronald Shin
-MT Senior Moderator

 

[MJS]

If you don't want people to think you're a duck then quit quacking. If you don't want people to think you're a rank chaser, don't post a dozen high ranks on your website.

The comment that Kenpo Joe is a good martial artist or that you like what he does is beside the point entirely.

He was used by me as a case in point. The point of the thread wasn't about him per se, he just fit the bill of someone that had multiple high ranks in various arts and the question was asked "How is this legitimately possible?" It still hasn't been answered IMO.

I couldn't agree more on this post! Considering how many people never take a MA discussion serious in the first place, I rarely discuss any training, unless I'm directly asked, and even then, depending on how the convo. is going, will depend whether or not I go in depth or just answer basic questions. I usually don't talk about rank, but when I am, I'm honest about it. I have nothing to hide about my rank. But you're right...when someone asks a question, and it gets beat around the bush, that makes some flags go up. If you're going to broadcast something, be prepared to get questions asked.

Mike

 

[Rob Broad]

Without stepping on MartialTalk Sraff's toes mayb this thread should be split into multiple topics so that all the questions can be answered.

Something else that may be helpful, instead of bombarding a person with multiple questions let them answer a question before asking another one that way they can give an answer with less chance of missing questions

 

[arnisador]

The positive comments are appreciated. I'm following this and find the subject interesting separate from any relation to specific people in any art. I've seen it in every art...and can't help but think of a Monty Python skit where a person had so many academic degrees that his list of them wrapped around the room, creating a barrier to entry. The point is, this is not so interesting if it's about a single person or a few people. Someone will always be at the far end of the bell curve of anything.

Next month I, and a few others that are in my Arnis group, will be testing for our black belts.

Hey, good luck!

 

[MJS]

Without stepping on MartialTalk Sraff's toes mayb this thread should be split into multiple topics so that all the questions can be answered.

Something else that may be helpful, instead of bombarding a person with multiple questions let them answer a question before asking another one that way they can give an answer with less chance of missing questions

Well, I can certainly understand that, however, if questions are not going to be answered, there really no sense in splitting it. We'd have 10 threads with a bunch of questions and no answers.