Yes Yes we suck.

[Cryozombie]

Ok, heres a serious question.

Seriously serious.

I keep reading over and over, on various threads, by various posters, etc etc... how much we suck:

Bujinkan practitioners suck. Our training methods suck. The teachers teaching this art (outside of japan) suck. The amount of time we spend using swords makes our sword work suck...

We just suck.

So why do we do it?

And, alternatly, if what we are learning "works" for us... if it keeps us alive, helps us get home after a confrontation, keeps our arms from getting broken when we slip on the ice and fall, alerts us to danger and helps us avoid it, and many other examples I can think of...

Do we really suck? Or is what we are doing just... not the same or not as good as the people we are being compared to?

Do I need to spend 6 months learning to "properly grip" a sword before I ever swing it...? Does my sanshin have to be flawless before I ever try Shito? Do I have to do Kihon Happo like a 15th dan before I should attempt to use it to save my life? Should I fall on my arms and palms and break my wrists if I should trip becuase my Ukemi is not flawless?

What is the deal people?

ALL I hear is NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE lately!

Makes me want to give up on this sorry, useless art and study Taekwondo.

 

[terryl965]

Ok, heres a serious question.

Seriously serious.

I keep reading over and over, on various threads, by various posters, etc etc... how much we suck:

Bujinkan practitioners suck. Our training methods suck. The teachers teaching this art (outside of japan) suck. The amount of time we spend using swords makes our sword work suck...

We just suck.

So why do we do it?

And, alternatly, if what we are learning "works" for us... if it keeps us alive, helps us get home after a confrontation, keeps our arms from getting broken when we slip on the ice and fall, alerts us to danger and helps us avoid it, and many other examples I can think of...

Do we really suck? Or is what we are doing just... not the same or not as good as the people we are being compared to?

Do I need to spend 6 months learning to "properly grip" a sword before I ever swing it...? Does my sanshin have to be flawless before I ever try Shito? Do I have to do Kihon Happo like a 15th dan before I should attempt to use it to save my life? Should I fall on my arms and palms and break my wrists if I should trip becuase my Ukemi is not flawless?

What is the deal people?

ALL I hear is NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE lately!

Makes me want to give up on this sorry, useless art and study Taekwondo.

Technopunk does it matter what people say, I listen all the time about TKD suck but it does not stop me from training a wise and old man once said it is not the Art that makes a fighter, it is the fighters that makes the Art. As long as you are happy and you can handle yourself that is what matters.
JUST MY NICKEL hopes this helps. Be the fighter with close ears and carry a heavey swing to the end.
Terry

 

[mantis]

Ok, heres a serious question.

Seriously serious.

I keep reading over and over, on various threads, by various posters, etc etc... how much we suck:

Bujinkan practitioners suck. Our training methods suck. The teachers teaching this art (outside of japan) suck. The amount of time we spend using swords makes our sword work suck...

We just suck.

So why do we do it?

And, alternatly, if what we are learning "works" for us... if it keeps us alive, helps us get home after a confrontation, keeps our arms from getting broken when we slip on the ice and fall, alerts us to danger and helps us avoid it, and many other examples I can think of...

Do we really suck? Or is what we are doing just... not the same or not as good as the people we are being compared to?

Do I need to spend 6 months learning to "properly grip" a sword before I ever swing it...? Does my sanshin have to be flawless before I ever try Shito? Do I have to do Kihon Happo like a 15th dan before I should attempt to use it to save my life? Should I fall on my arms and palms and break my wrists if I should trip becuase my Ukemi is not flawless?

What is the deal people?

ALL I hear is NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE lately!

Makes me want to give up on this sorry, useless art and study Taekwondo.

yes YOU SUCK
your screen name sucks
your avatar sucks
jk...
im probably the most negative person on this forum (at least according to someone on this forum)
have you heard the chinese saying "3 years for horse stance"?
yah, 6 months is less than 3 years.
doesnt matter what you do people will tell you that you suck. you either gotta trust ur art and move on, or u gonna be hopping from an art to another for the rest of your life.
last thing, you suck for posting this thread (joking again)

 

[shesulsa]

Ignore the negativity, man. The bottom line is, are you getting what you want from your art? what you need from your art?

If you're in this to be a bit safer on the street and you are, then what does it matter what anyone else says?

For every art there are people who praise it and people who trash it. Let it roll off yer back, man.

 

[Bester]

Pity there isn't more US based instructors posting. They could probably balance out things.

Ignore the negative, focus on the positive, and **** those who ***** and envy you.

 

[Tgace]

None of it matters in the long run. If you are happy with what you are doing let em go **** themselves.

 

[Don Roley]

ALL I hear is NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE lately!

Makes me want to give up on this sorry, useless art and study Taekwondo.

I, for one, hate it when people sit around and tell themselves just how great they are.

As good as we think this art it, we have only scratched the surface.

We should be reaching for the highest point we can, instead of being satisfied with what we are.

I look at Noguchi, Nagase, Oguri, Someya and of course Hatsumi and see the magic that they can do. And then I look at people that are going off in another direction. They don't even know it. They think that what they are doing is within the bounds of good taijutsu.

Is it a good thing to just pat them on the back and let them think that they are doing good? Or should we be telling them the truth and encouraging them to challenge their pre-concieved notions, re-examine what they think and set their sites on the excellence that we see in Hatsumi and those close to him?

 

[Andrew Green]

Do we really suck? Or is what we are doing just... not the same or not as good as the people we are being compared to?

Bingo

Everyone compares others to themself.

A boxer might look at a Muay Thai fighter and say his punching sucks, and in comparisson, it does. Put them in the ring and my money is likely to go on the Muay Thai fighter if both are allowed to use all there skills though.

BJJ looks at MMA fighters and says, his groundwork sucks, and it does, in comparrison.

Judo looks at BJJ and says the takedowns suck, they do in comparisson.

Don't look at each element of your training individually, chance are, in comparrison to those that "only" do that element, yours sucks. But if you got 20 other things to work on, time is an issue.

Specialized arts will always say general ones suck at doing whatever they specialize in. Ignore it and carry on, remind yourself of all the stuff you'd miss out on if you took whatever they are complaining about to the same level they do.

 

[arnisador]

So why do we do it?

I dunno. I do know that people attach their movie ideas of the Ninja to what you do, and real life will always fall short of that.

 

[Shogun]

What we do is "self-preservation"....not self defense, self offense, or anything like that.

Personally, I LOVE to pick apart the Martial arts I study, find ONLY the weak points. I don't like finding the strong points. thats easy. finding the weak points, and working on them.
a lot of you know I do Gracie Jiu Jitsu. I pick the crap out of it during training. Well, I enjoy doing a technique I do not initially see as effective. Once I have viewed is as "inneficient", I work on it even harder to get it to work for me. then like magic....it does.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Consider the source. Some 19 year old badmouthing TKD or BBTwho has a whole six months to a year of MMA or BJJ training will have ZERO influence on my own opinion. How many of us had to, just had to put down others at that age? Now as to the older adults; if it wasn't putting down another MA it would be saying how much better THEIR motorcycle brand is than their friends or how much better THEIR house is than their neighbors! The root cause of this, Technopunk, is THEIR immaturity, which is their problem - not yours.

I sympathize with you, though. You shouldn't have to put up with so much crap about your art.

On edit: I'm assuming your original post was speaking of the totally negative individuals who, if it isn't whatever their doing at the moment say - "that sucks"; and not those posters who ask legitimate questions such as does your BBT or TKD school teach defenses against takedowns? For instance, I personally love TKD, but recognize that boxers generally have faster hands. That's not running TKD down at all.

 

[Solidman82]

Everyone sucks at something. If people are telling you that what your'e doing well sucks, those aren't people you really need to listen to. If I were however to say that your Madonna impression sucks and you should never EVER do it again though, you should definately listen to me.

 

[Shinkengata]

Im still in the art because i love the movement, and i love the openness. Now there may very well be something wrong or contradictory to that given what i may have said in the past, but that's the reason that comes to mind when i ask myself why im still in the Bujinkan.

 

[Cryozombie]

I appreciate the words of encouragement, but it seems like you think I am talking about outsiders.

Im talking about the BBT people HERE... if you read any number of the posts in this section you will see all kinds of statements, from The way people in the west practice this art is all pathetic, any MMA or BJJ guy will kick our asses in a real fight, blah blah blah... Its not one or two posts, its rampant in this forum.

Im not inclined to look up exact quotes and post them as I need to get ready to go to my pathetic sunday morning training... :shrug:

 

[Cryozombie]

I, for one, hate it when people sit around and tell themselves just how great they are.

Well, you will never hear me say that, I PERSONALLY do suck, and have a LOT of room for improvement. But I am WORKING on it, and thats all I can do.

I look at Noguchi, Nagase, Oguri, Someya and of course Hatsumi and see the magic that they can do. And then I look at people that are going off in another direction. They don't even know it. They think that what they are doing is within the bounds of good taijutsu.

I dont know Don, I'm not as close to the source as you are, so I cannot examine it from that perspective. I have only to base my judgement off of 4 Bujinkan instructors I trained with and a handful of seminars with several others. And I have to say that I think my current instructor's approach to training is gonna help keep me alive... and if thats not a clone of Noguchi, Nagase, Oguri, Someya, or even Hatsumi, its just as good for me, AT MY LEVEL. I havnt had a 10th of the training those guys have... what makes you think I should move like them or do the same magic?

Its not even about that, anyhow, Don. Its about the level of negativity I see on this board regarding most of the people in this art. MOST of us have a long way to go before we reach the levels of proficency that the people you mentioned have...

whatever.

Im really going to train now.

 

[MJS]

Don't let it get to you dude!! I've seen the posts that you're talking about on here, and I see similar things over on the Kenpo threads. Don't let the negative words of some have an ill effect on your training. You obviously enjoy your training, and that is all that should matter! Who cares what others say about BBT. They don't seem to want to take the time and really learn what the art is about, so they run off with a 1/4 of an understanding, and talk trash about it.

Keep training hard. There are alot of great people here who know alot about the art.

Mike

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Ok, heres a serious question.

Bujinkan practitioners suck.

All the more reason to elevate yourself above the norm.

Our training methods suck.

Those still abound that instill bad habits, perhaps. Though truth be told I don't feel qualified to point each and every one of them out.

The teachers teaching this art (outside of japan) suck.

You know what uncle H says...500 good, 500 bad.

The amount of time we spend using swords makes our sword work suck...

On the other hand, when you pick up a katana within the Bujinkan you have done more traditional katana training than most other people in the world.

So why do we do it?

Because it's a drug, we're addicted and as soon as I'm finished typing I'm going to go get another fix.

And, alternatly, if what we are learning "works" for us... if it keeps us alive, helps us get home after a confrontation, keeps our arms from getting broken when we slip on the ice and fall, alerts us to danger and helps us avoid it, and many other examples I can think of...
Do we really suck? Or is what we are doing just... not the same or not as good as the people we are being compared to?

Nobody is going to discredit your taijutsu if you use strength or something in a real confrontation when the adrenaline starts pumping and you haven't perfected your taijutsu enough...unless of course you become one of those who spam message boards complaining about the uselessness of our techniques, admit defeat and go off joining the vale tudo crowd. Having said that, is it really that hard to get used to the idea that one should never be satisfied?

Do I need to spend 6 months learning to "properly grip" a sword before I ever swing it...?

Ideally, yes. However you also need to be able to do front flips on your index fingers before learning Shinden Fudo ryu.

Do I have to do Kihon Happo like a 15th dan before I should attempt to use it to save my life? Should I fall on my arms and palms and break my wrists if I should trip becuase my Ukemi is not flawless?

No, but if you're going to die, or get beaten to death by someone better than you, you'd better make damn sure you don't die surprised.

ALL I hear is NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE lately

The nicest thing I've ever heard from my current teacher is that there are bigger idiots in the Bujinkan world than me (and perhaps one time that I pick things up quickly, but I may have dreamt that:asian: ). Really, it's good for the character.

 

[Don Roley]

The nicest thing I've ever heard from my current teacher is that there are bigger idiots in the Bujinkan world than me (and perhaps one time that I pick things up quickly, but I may have dreamt that:asian: ). Really, it's good for the character.

I had a similar experience just this week. It was not my teacher, but a very skilled senior to me. He drives me crazy with the way he points out all my flaws and won't let me get away with anything short of perfection. He has the bed side manner of Attila the Hun. But I learn from training with him and try to do so whenever I get the chance.

Anyways, he was going through things with me and took the time to say that he was doing it because I had reached a level where I could understand the basic way I had to start looking at things. I shot back that while I could see what I aspired to, I was still heta- which is Japanese for poor and unskilled. He responded, yeah you are heta, but they (indicating the rest of the class who was doing something totally different from what the teacher had shown) are just plain dame (no good.)

His point is that his carping on my bad points are a form of kindness in that they can help me get better. And I have seen him and others just nod their head when they see others do things I know they would be all over me for. If your ego can handle it, they can help. But it probably is not going to be a pleasent experience. It is very negative in its own way, but it does allow growth.

And then there is the cases where they don't point out problems and pat you on the back. Do you think that it is a case where there can be no improvement? Hah! In most cases, they just don't think you could handle all the corrections and stop coming to training. There were a few points in my life, largely thanks to the guy in this story, where I seriously considered giving up training. I came home from class gnashing my teeth I was so sick with the way he could easily open up my weak points. But the fact is I can't stand the thought of me being a person who would give up that easily so through sheer stubborness and stupidity I kept working on the problems he pointed out and maybe I have gotten a bit better because of it. I know I still suck, but because I won't give up, I am not dame.

But in the case of people from other arts telling us we suck... the heck with them. We can aspire to greatness and try to point out our weak links. But some of them are just trying to make themselves sound better. Imagine what they are trying to compensate for it they have to do that to build themselves up in their minds.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Most people feel easier posting and saying negitive things. It makes the feel superior, in some way, and that hurts when comeing from peers. But examin your own reasons for doing any thing, and if you find fault in what you do or in the outcome try to make it better. I am not saying try to make a sword tech better but learn the tech and practice it and study it the way you where taught. Maybe after a while you will see the reason behind it being taught that way.
Some times in the arts we learn things that seem less than equal to what is being taught else where, however we each choose our art and we should learn it in it's purest form befor comdeming it or changeing it.
Now if people from your organisation are always down gradding it and saying bad things about it I have to ask/say:
Why the hell are they in it? If it is so bad to them why don't they go where they feel the training is better?

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I am not saying try to make a sword tech better but learn the tech and practice it and study it the way you where taught. Maybe after a while you will see the reason behind it being taught that way.

Well, you see, the problem is that it doesn't always work like that in the Bujinkan. As my "pusher" pointed out about half an hour ago, some people are less interested in practicing the technique they're being taught and more interested in moving around (coincidentally, they're often the same type of people who punch you in the face without a word of advice and have an aversion to grabbing).

Why the hell are they in it? If it is so bad to them why don't they go where they feel the training is better?

You honestly don't think I'd be training in my current dojo if the problems I rant about all the time were abundant there too, do you?