Wing Chun grappling

[Danny T]

It's a perfectly cromulent defense against an untrained football tackle.

cromulent [sic] ???

Also I agree that Oram, in the video, doesn't say anything about defending vs a wrestler but he does use the term 'shoot'. He doesn't use the term anti-grappling either he says "take his balance and prevent the grappling situation" which is a grappling situation in of its self. And that example was a terrible example of a committed shoot for a takedown or tackle.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Cromulent.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

And that example was a terrible example of a committed shoot for a takedown or tackle.

I've seen white belts with poor wrestling skills get overexcited in sparring and perform shoots that bad. The video shows pretty much what you do to show them why they need to improve their takedown technique.

(Assuming you want to keep it standing and not just sprawl on them.)

 

[Danny T]

Cromulent.

Ah, a made up word for humor. Thanks.

 

[JowGaWolf]

William Cheung lineage sifu Eric Oram teaches some antigrappling... shoot defense.

finally a WC guy that understands. Control the head. He's the only one that I've seen who didn't suggest punching the shoot.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Whats demonstrated in that video isn't a defense against a wrestling takedown. It's defense against a wing chun guy trying to mimic a wrestling takedown.

There are videos of wrestlers doing same or similar technique. It works against wrestlers too and they use it.

 

[Steve]

There are videos of wrestlers doing same or similar technique. It works against wrestlers too and they use it.

I have no way of knowing that. I am commenting on what was posted, which was a defense against a wing chin guy doing a poor double leg takedown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steve]

In fairness, he doesn't specify that it's a counter for a wrestler. He just says "takedown" and an untrained football tackle is a common takedown attempt, although not a skilled one.

It's quite possible that he meant it as a counter for a wrestler's double leg, but the video doesn't explicitly say that.

The video title I saw said wrestler. If I'm mistaken, my bad, but I'm pretty sure I'm not inventing that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The video title I saw said wrestler. If I'm mistaken, my bad, but I'm pretty sure I'm not inventing that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just double-checked. It says Wing Chun Kung Fu Takedown Counter. No mention of wrestling.

 

[TSDTexan]

I don't think it would fly against these guys.
But against an unskilled opponent on the street, yes.

If they brought in some top tier judoka and practiced a lot, with them, it would work more than it wouldnt.

 

[Steve]

Just double-checked. It says Wing Chun Kung Fu Takedown Counter. No mention of wrestling.

Alright. I feel better then. If we are talking about techniques against untrained people, what the heck. Everything's on the table.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have no way of knowing that. I am commenting on what was posted, which was a defense against a wing chin guy doing a poor double leg takedown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The biggest problem is that there is no one size fits all technique for those types of scenarios.
That technique only works when there is an opportunity to seize the back of the neck. The technique works but it's going to be rare that a person will be able to recognize the opportunity fast enough before the opponent changes position making the technique useless.
The opportunity to use this technique increases as the opponent becomes tired.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't think it would fly against these guys.
But against an unskilled opponent on the street, yes.

If they brought in some top tier judoka and practiced a lot, with them, it would work more than it wouldnt.

correct. It wouldn't work on those techniques. The technique that he shows is only effective against someone who hasn't closed the distance. It's not a one size fits all technique.

 

[TSDTexan]

That technique only works when there is an opportunity to seize the back of the neck. The technique works but it's going to be rare that a person will be able to recognize the opportunity fast enough before the opponent changes position making the technique useless.

Agreed. One of the purposes of forms is to drill techniques until they are installed into the autonomic subconscious neural level. Instinctively reactive with muscle memory. The subconscious recognizes and the body reacts as trained.

The force of repetition is what makes tricky things doable in a real fight.

 

[PiedmontChun]

My thought is that everyone doing WC should mix in training defense against some thug-like tackles, so even if you have no intent to grapple - as a WC guy you don't freeze up when someone shoots in and you are trying to punch thin air in a super rigid upright stance like some of these competition videos show.
Sprawl or drive the rear leg back, drive your jum sau forearm into their collar bone region to keep them further away from your legs if possible, alternatively control the back of their head and drive them downward if they've gotten in, or redirect and transition into a better position. Might be crude compared to training in a grappling art but its a start and useful in a lot of self defense scenarios.

 

[drop bear]

It's a perfectly cromulent defense against an untrained football tackle. As long as they don't claim it's effective against a trained wrestler, I have no problem with it.

Sprawl underhook crossface works against a football tackle as well.

 

[drop bear]

I've seen white belts with poor wrestling skills get overexcited in sparring and perform shoots that bad. The video shows pretty much what you do to show them why they need to improve their takedown technique.

(Assuming you want to keep it standing and not just sprawl on them.)

If you want to be Barry stand up. You also need to know how to force the other guy into commiting bad takedowns.

Forward pressure and long combinations of strikes make takedowns easier. Mostly.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Sprawl underhook crossface works against a football tackle as well.

Yep. If I want to stay close and dominate the grappling range I'll do that. If I want to keep my distance and strike, the defense shown works against untrained tackles.

 

[Jake104]

There are some grappling escapes that don't require for me to punch or grab my opponent in order to break his hold.

Let me clarify. You're either grappling striking or you're Houdini 'The Master of Escapes'. Better?

 

[Jake104]

If you want to be Barry stand up. You also need to know how to force the other guy into commiting bad takedowns.

Forward pressure and long combinations of strikes make takedowns easier. Mostly.

Like only moving forward? Cause.... Forward intent as is constant pressure with out a barrage of strikes but instead a fight for positioning makes takedown attempts go away for me. With that recipe I collapse or like my teacher says "crumble" the takedown'iers structure and stop it dead in its tracks. He likes to say we don't break your structure we crumble it. It's wrasslerr an jujitsu tested. Boneified takedowns. Not pretend. Does this mean I can't be taken down? No. I might go down with your arm though. Cause that's my arm and I'm breaking things as we go down. I purposely didn't use the S word. But the sprawl is essentially what I mean. WC has this body mechanic. Its just not surface layer stuff. Its a few layers in and missed by most.... Think about it, a MA that doesn't have an answer for the shoot? Sounds ludicrous too me! The sprawl is in the first form of WC. I was just shown this. This is why I post here now to spread the gospel ( really just to pay homage to my teacher and his teaching)..I just learned this last week. Ok really last month but same same. Cause it's COMBAT WING CHUN SUCKERS !!!! Haha